I haven’t heard of any instances here in the Cedar Rapids area,but my son and I do go out railfanning the U.P. and Crandic.We don’t take pictures,but do write down engine numbers to see how many former CNW units we spot.We haven’t been bothered,but I’m wondering if it’s a matter of time.One thing we do is usually park at one of the nature trail lots near the mainline away from any industry(not much along the UP in this area anyway).
I’m concerned as to why law enforcement and security agencies are so concerned about railfans and not paying more attention to who’s a raghead and who’s not.My first question would be ‘Do I look like a dang raghead to you?’ I can prove my citizenship to anyone who wants to question it.If they are so concerned about security,then why aren’t the borders closed and immigration enforced(we don’t need any new laws,just enforce the ones already on the books)!Next,U.S. citizens don’t need neo-guestapo law enforcement and their facist tactics stepping on our Constitutional rights of Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness.As you can tell,I don’t believe in ‘political correctness’ or spineless people hiding behind curtains(iron or otherwise)reporting every little thing their neighbors are doing.This isn’t Nazi Germany or 1933.
Anyway,enough of my soapbox.Enjoy your hobby safely,respectfully,and without fear.
I contacted the company whom these people claimed to be from. They do work there but aren’t security personnel. I spoke with their supervisor and informed them of what happened and that the PD is investigating. He said he’d take disciplinary action against them and apologized on behalf of the company. Even better, he invited me to photograph trains at their facility and said he’d give me written permission in case of further issues.
The PD detective assigned to the case contacted me this morning. The department will likely pursue something with them but he couldn’t speculate what that would be as of yet but he’d keep me informed.
I applaud your uncompromising actions to stand up and be counted against quasi facist knuckleheads. Whoever that supervisor was did the right thing by you and I also laud him for both his apology and his invitation. Thanks for sharing this experience.
The only mopes that ever bother me while I’m out making train pictures while on public property are those who watch CNN to excess. They tell me to leave the area because such activities are contributing to global warming, loss of wildlife habitat, the woes of the poor, the destruction of rain forests, overfishing ocean fisheries and the imbalance in world trade.
I usually have coffee and greasy doughnuts with the Fox News watchers. [:D]
Seriously, that “Photographer’s Rights” document is NOT a legal document and waiving it in someone’s face during a confrontation won’t intimidate anyone with a well-developed brain. Especially if they actually do have some sort of authority over the area in question – i.e., where you are railfanning.
Anyone who has taken time to read it carefully will notice that it is intentionally worded to avoid being defin
To me it’s enough that the PD is investigating and I will have less stress enjoying one of the things I like to do. If I’d been harassed further by these two I’d go to a news outlet and see what they have to say. I’ll let those who know what the laws are do their jobs.
I wonder what they would have done if you’d picked up your cell phone and contacted the police right in front of them? I’m hoping to go back to Iowa next summer to do some railfanning (I grew up in Oskaloosa, and still have some friends in North Liberty). I think I’ll make sure that I contact the companies ahead of time; it might just save some headaches. I could pretend that I’m railroad secruity, but my Geo is a convertible; it would probably be laughed at worse than the tracker.
I would think that it’s not as likely that you’ll have a confrontation with a person with a well-developed brain - and if they do have said brain, they may even take the time to read it. If the photog is, indeed, in the wrong (the “Posted” sign was behind a bush, or not…), then I’m sure the person of authority will point that out and ask them to leave again. And at that point, the railfan should leave.
The subject document should serve to debunk the irrational fears of certain people of the “you can’t take any pictures here - haven’t you heard of 9/11?” ilk. It also gives you time to get out your cell phone, which, as Z points out, will serve to seal the deal if their gig is all bravado.
If the railfan/photographer is standing on private property, loudly proclaiming his rights while waving the paper around, well, he deserves what he gets.
On the other hand, having a letter of permission from the company in question can do a lot to take the wind out of their sails, too.
Dan, I’m a retired Sergeant from the Alabama Department of Public Safety, and I really believe you did the right thing. Unfortunately, a whole lot of common sense has gone out the window since 9/11.Don Phillips had quite a bit to say about this very issue in this month’s Trains. You are perfectly within your rights to demand ID from any person in civilian clothes who claims to be a Peace Officer. Railroad Police, if not in uniform will readily identify themselves to you, as will any Police Officer not in uniform. I can only speak for the State of Alabama, but in this state, private security guards do not have any type of police authority. At the end of the day, as long as you’re not trespassing,as long as you’re on public property, or private private property, where the public is admittted as a matter of right and custom,your ability to take pictures is limited only by the amount of film you have brought with you. Happy railfanning!!
Yesterday’s job briefing included having to watch a short video issued by UP on post 9/11 Haz mat safety.
I am sure the UP guys here already have seen it.
To keep it short and sweet, the legal department had to have edited the narration…it gets close, but not quite over the line of telling you that the Bill of Rights should be ignored, and anyone that you (the employee) think of as suspicious in any way should be either hassled till they leave or reported to the special agents or police.
Some what of a KGB versus Her Majesties Secret Service spoof was included.
A man and his girlfriend were shown eating in a restaurant, he an obvious railroad employee.
They were discussing his day at work, and seated at the next table was a man of obvious Middle Eastern descent, fugitively taking notes about the couple’s conversation.
The couple was bright, white and uptight looking, the “bad” guy was as swarthy and evil looking as possible, short of putting him in a turban and robes, the “good” versus “bad” was as over done as possible.
The narrator is, of course warning the viewers not to discuss any aspect of their job “with those that do not have “a need to know” along with a stiff warning to report anyone you know who does discuss their railroad job with others.
The video even included a thinly veiled threat not to participate in any forums or on line discussions about any aspect of railroad business.
It would seem as though the UP is trying to alienate as many railfans as possible.
I guess next time I see someone stealing from the UP yard near my house, or see anyone suspicious on or near the tracks, I will NOT report it, due to fear that the UP Nazi’s will question ME for paying attention to their property.
Ed, thanks for making us aware. ===========================================================
I hope someone from the UP (or maybe Ed) will bring this to the attention of Trains columnist Don Phillips. I would love to read his take on this.
You know I understood your approach. But I do appreciate sarcasm. [:D]
I didn’t realize you have been bothered by so many of these “self-appointed saviours of the world” to the point where you have become so tired of dealing with them. Sorry.
I guess I’m lucky. I live in the railroad criss-crossed Chicago area and take my cameras out to photograph trains at least two days a week. Strange, but in all these years I have only been approached by two of your so-called “SASOTWs.” One was very polite, and after I told him what I was doing he let me continue. The other was a senior agent for BNSF. We had a nice 20-minute chat about goofy foamers, which ended with him giving me several nice BNSF calendars.
I’ve read the horror stories others have told here. From those accounts, and from your report of being tired of dealing with these people (I assume in SE Wisconsin), I shall surmise that security people tend to be more Fife-like in small towns and rural areas. Just the opposite of what I would have expected.
On the other hand, this reminds me of the difference in passing through security at different-sized airports. The big airports like O’Hare, Midway, Orlando, Atlanta Hartsfield, LaGuardia, Kennedy… all get you through in reasonably good time with a moderate search. But in smaller airports that see very little air traffic – Manchester NH, Sarasota, White Plains NY, – where they have very few flights each day, the security people are “extremely and overly meticulous” to the point of being almost ridiculous – where they check everything – behind your ears, un
There’s a couple gov services out here in CA that use them… But sounds to me like they were full of it. Referring to themselves as peace officers, but refusing to identify themselves? I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it turned out to be some neighborhood watch knuckle heads or something. Some of the people that get involved with organizations like that have some serious mental issues. My home was damaged during the Northridge quake… That morning, everybody on the street kind of went into a collective neighbor help neighbor mode, so a lot of us left our doors ajar, due to the fact that neighbors were coming and going to check on each other. While I’m in the back, I all of the sudden hear people talking in my living room… I walk in to find three older people that I had never seen before standing there. Before I could say anything, one of them asks me if my gas is turned off. I said “who the h&ll are you???” Turns out they were some neighbor hood watch nuts and decided that they apparently had a right to just walk into people’s houses. I told them to get the h*ll out before I called the cops and had them arrested, and said they’re lucky they weren’t shot for being looters.
Ok, A show of hands… How many people have heard “Geo Tracker”, “a pair of ladies (mid 40’s) in plainclothes” and “high speed pursuit” used in the same sentence before??? Maybe CNW6000 should have taken there picture… you know, for co-employees of the month.