Timboy:
I’m sure that you will get many replies to this question. For each there are proponents and opponents. I’ve used the hard shell method for my layout and am pleased with the way it worked out. Hard shell seems to work well for those areas where you want to place a tunnel or need access while foam works well for areas that are solid.
Joe
When you use carved foam and start out with a foam block, understand that the form is already there. You just have to carve the rest of the of the foam away from it.[:D]
I used foam as I did not want to risk gooping up the very expensive carpet that the previous owner installed in what is now my train room. I may do plaster in one spot on the layout just because of where it is and the effect I want. I keep the vacuum in my right holster when carving the foam so it never gets to messy. I have a bag in the shop vac to collect the bits to use again.
Brent
I’ve used both. While I am more comfortable with foam, I recognize that there are places where one will work better than the other. I take each area on a case by case basis examining the design I want to accomplish as well as the challenges I face in making it happen.
The other responders have done a good job of laying out the pros and cons of both. I prefer the flexibility that foam provides although forming mountains with the foam gets tedius in a hurry.
One advantage of foam though is that it is much easier to plant trees in than the thin shell types of scenery methods.
Lance Mindheim
Visit Miami’ Downtown Spur at www.lancemindheim.com
I’ve seen terrific examples of both–carved foam with either plaster or Sculptamold hardshell covering, or simple supported hardshell. I think both work equally well, and it’s what you’re most comfortable with.
Myself, I use a kinda/sorta combination. I build the rough elevation up with scrap foam, then crumple wet newspaper over that for the rough contour, then use hardshell plaster and Sculptamold for the finishing terrain. It might sound like I’m “taking too many coals to Newcastle”, but there’s a method to my madness–I have very steep Sierra Nevada mountain terrain that is also quite heavily forested with evergreens. Simple hardshell usually results in some ‘leaning’ trees, whereas the foam under-lie allows me a solid base for the tree trunks, which usually extend about an inch into the scenery (I make most of my evergreens using bamboo skewers for trunks).
But I don’t think there’s a ‘versus’ to either technique. As I said, I’ve seen terrific scenery with either method. I’d say it’s whatever YOU’RE comfortable with–there’s no Right or Wrong with either technique.
Tom [:)]
I prefer building hollow mountains rather than piling on layers of foam that must be carved away. Hard shell is easy to remove and redo if necessary. Hasn’t anyone heard of using cheap picnic table covers as a floor covering for catching errant plaster drips? Chasing down all those tiny static-electricity-charged foam bits cannot be a joy. Saw a lot of “tipsy” trees last weekend on the way through the metropolis of Hayfork and on to Fortuna, CA while observing the mountains’ coniferous trees and tall, coastal Redwoods. Besides, trees can be glued to hardshell if you must have them upright.
Mark
I’ve done much of the same thing…
Why?
Because I learned quickly that my imagination isn’t the greatest when it comes to carving form. I’m too mechanical with it. The result are hills and such that do not look natural– at least to me.
By using the foam as a base only, and finishing the rest pretty much like you do, the crumpled newspapers sort of decide for me what the shape of the hill will end up being. I’m much happier with the final result.
Both are the same but different. They are both mediums that have their own specific advantages and disadvantages. With either one you need to have a vision of what you want the finished landforms to look like in your head and make it happen. I am a fan of hard-shell but have played around with a little foam on my layout. I am not that great with foam so I stick with what I know. I have constructed mountains and other various landforms and have had them covered with the hard shell and looked at them and looked at them some more and changed them. It’s not all that hard once you’ve done it a few times.For me thats the thing about foam I don’t like. So I have all the pieces of foam glued to my bench work and I start carving away and my finished project look like the dog jumped up on the layout and left me a large stinky present now what do I do? With hard shell I get out my hobby knife and cut out the section I don’t like clean it up add some new webbing and recover it to get the results I want. Maybe some foam users can enlighten me as to how to fix the big giant thing left behind.by Rover. Not only speaking of my own self made disasters but I have seen some really horrid work done in foam so I know it’s not this simple be all to end all but like to see and learn how other people do things
Having done a little of each, I agree that there’s a place for both. However, foam wins hands down if the landform is, or is on top of, some form of lift-out.
There is a third, half way between, alternative - squirt foam. It’s that stuff that comes in a spray can with a tube applicator, goes on liquid and then expands to fill the cavity (or make a plastic cow pie if just shot onto an open area.) It can be carved, but has to be overlaid with some kind of skim coat because it has more holes than Swiss cheese. I tried it once, to give a ‘tree-friendly’ surface to some hard shell. Not bad, but somewhat tricky - it ended up as the soft filler in a hard shell sandwich.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1966 - with a lot of scenery in my future)
I have used both foam and hardshell, including plaster dipped paper towels/newspapers and plaster cloth. For me, cost is a major motivator. Foam is just so danged expensive, and you end up carving so much of it away. Even recycling the leftover pieces back into the layout, there’s a fair amount of waste. As was mentioned earlier, cleaning up all of the little carved-out foam bits is a mess, making it, in terms of cleanup time, comparably messy with dipped plaster.
My preference is plaster cloth over wadded newspaper. It’s clean, quick, and easy, I have the highest level of control over how the landform develops, and it yields the most visually appealing land contours (at least to these eyes).
Jim
I like the idea of a combination. Carved foam makes for easier planting of trees. It also makes changes in scenery elevations easier. Since one of the ideas of scenery is to make our layouts look as large as possible. You need positive and negative elevations (areas that are above the trackline and below it. Foam makes it easier to install buildings or small scenes into the layout. The plaster hard shell has been great for making mountains. Some of my layout mountains go almost to the ceiling. Using foam would not be practical because of the amount of foam sheets that would be necessary.
I use the crumpled newspaper and plaster cloth method except I put the newspaper in plastic grocery bags so that the paper stays dry when the plaster is applied.
I am a foam man. I do not know how I would make hoodoos any other way. Then a lot of people don’t model The Superstition Mountains or Yellowstone Canyon.
I agree with the consensus here that both have plus and minuses and both can be used as needed. The only thing I will add is the question: do you really think you will change the contour of your railroad after it’s built? Do you think it will be any easier to change vis a vis foam over plaster? What if the change you want to make involves adding in elements instead of removing them- wouldn’t plaster then have the advantage? I can assure you a week’s pay check that if you use foam and plaster mix with the idea of the foam being easier to work a building into, then the actual place you need to put a building will be on the plaster area thereby negating the entire reason for using the foam.
So I say, whatever dude. Use what you feel you need to when and where you need to. It’s your railroad, don’t worry about every little detail being exactly right. Just have fun- you can always change it later…
If cost is a factor. Sheets of foam to make mountains is more expensive then using hardshell scenery. Its over 30 bucks a sheet in some areas.
FWIW, I use ground-up pink foam (“foam sawdust”) as putty/filler material. Whenever I need some I take a little MEK and pour “foam sawdust” into it until it takes on the consistency that I want for whatever it is I need to fill in.
John