I have visited the local hobby shop several times over the last year as I build up my knowledge and prepare to start building. Let me state that I have no reason to have anything but the highest regard for the person there, who has been doing this his whole life (compared to me reading a few books and magazines). He owns the shop and his dad owned it before him. He listens and asks questions, as opposed to telling me to shut up and listen.
My original plan was to follow my personality on this project: spend a gadzillion hours planning it and then do it really well the first time. He has suggested not only scrapping that idea, but doing the following:
Buy one of the Bachmann Trains starter sets (The Frontiersman–he has a reasonable price on it when compared to Ebay), not building a set of separate pieces. Cost is a big reason according to him, along with the idea of jump-starting things by getting some visible results. He says get it running on the enclosed snap-fit track and then start to lay my own track when I feel up to it. He said don’t even tack down the snap-fit track, just lay it up there and then start laying my own experimental track with the expectation that I will do a great disservice to model railroaders everywhere.
Buy some scenery kits and basically monkey around with them. Make a nice mish-mash of it, experimenting with scenes, types of buildings, landscapes, etc. In other words, don’t even try to make a fully coherent scene on my first 4x8, just try a little of everything to find what I like. Plan on throwing away major portions of it and starting over anyway.
Do NOT go DCC to start, but instead build my first set of tracks as analog. His reasoning: in the 1-3 years I will probably need to build up my nerve / bankroll / skills to a quality track plan, DCC will have changed so much that I will be sorry I bought right now. And, when I “throw away” my previous efforts, the analog equipment won’t be a total loss because I
Actually it is, get something down, something simple, a starting point, and build from there. Also by starting small you actually have a better chance that you’ll finish it, you wouldnt beleive how many guys decide to build big from the start, get in over their heads and quit in angry frustration, slow and steady wins the race, especially for starters.
This way you can develop your skills, learn and experiment, beleive me, I’ve redesigned my layout 5 times in as many yars so this guy is correct, your ideas change and evolve over time, you learn better ways to plan and build.
The late great master John Allen started with a 4’ x 6 foot looping over and under layout, you cant get much simpler than that, this was expanded over the years till it filled his basement from floor to ceiling!
So yes, I would call this the “John Allen” method and its a good place to begin with.
I can only suggest that you take #1 with a grain of salt. Starter train sets are not usually very reliable, sometimes the locos and cars are junk, and it can be a real crap-shoot. I’ve seen ‘newbies’ turned off of the hobby by immediately buying ‘train-sets’ and then becoming discouraged after the loco quits after 20 hours or so of running.
My advice would be to get separate components–perhaps Atlas, Kato or Proto or Athearn locos as starting points–they appear to have a good built-in ‘reliability factor’. Cars can be reasonably purchased from Accurail, or Athearn BB, and the Accurail kits are a good starting point for developing your kit-building skills. Bachmann EZ snap-track would be okay if you’d rather go that route for the present–it’s extremely reliable–I even have some of their wide-radius curves on my largely flex-track layout. However if you start laying your own flex-track later, , be warned that the EZ track is a little higher than any commercial roadbed. But that can be overcome easily with gradient risers.
As to the DC/DCC argument, I’ll let that one go to others who I’m sure will respond to your post. I’d listen to the arguments of each proponent and make your own decision. I happen to be strictly DC, but that’s a purely personal preference.
Welcome to the hobby. I think you’ll find a lot of good information on this forum. God knows, I have!!
Is it good advice for the vendor? So long as your spending $ - Yes.
Is it good advice for you? [%-)]
If you feel it is good advice for you why are you asking?
At the end of the day its your $$$ - $$$$$ and $$$$$
With anyone I would say read a lot, study pics, do what you can to sort out what you like, what you want and what you will do/be able to do. If you actually want an MRR you wll have to start getting stuff some time somewhere. Spacemouse’s “givens and druthers” in his signature are a good starting guide.
Remember… it’s supposed to be fun.
You will never get it all correct at a single hit.
The right answer really depends on how well you know yourself, and what you want. And how likely what you want is going to change over the next year. If you already know the era, region, theme, and an idea of a track plan that you know will satisfy you, then bypassing the train set stage will save some money. But it will only save if you don’t change your mind in the next year.
When all costs are added in (benchwork, wire, trains, structures, scenery materials, some special tools, track, etc), a typical 4x8 will cost over $500, and most likely closer to $1,000. Therefore, starting with a $100-$200 train set while you learn what your desires in the hobby are is usually a pretty good idea.
Second part - which also involves knowing yourself - are you a layout builder, or an operator? At the builder extreme, as soon as a layout is “completed”, it’s time to tear it down and build another. The building of the layout is where the joy is. The extreme operator might let others do most of the layout building for him, but gets his kicks having a gang over operating the layout as close to a real railroad as he can. Or wants to see his model train running through a particular scene he has duplicated. Most of us are somewhere in the middle, but have some leaning one direction or the other. My point is: if you have any leanings towards the operator or rail fan side, you will be frustrated building a large first layout without some early provision for running or operating trains.
I’m sure you have told the LHS owner more about yourself than you have told us, so he likely has better information on which to base his recommendation. And actually, his recommendation to you is not to his immediate advantage. He would make a lot more money advising you to buy DCC, a variety of locomotives that catch your eye, the most realistic track, and so on. But when you give up the hobby in frustration over all the m
I suppose if you really don’t have any idea about what you want your model railroad to depict, this isn’t a bad approach. I was lucky in that before I spent my first dollar, I knew what I wanted to model (era, region, etc.), so I focused my research in that direction. From there I devised benchwork and track plans, then started playing with a simple 4X8 practice layout. Things I’m learning while playing with this small layout are helping me tweak my ultimate plan.
I researched the motive power, rolling stock, types of structures and scenery that would be appropriate for my plan, and started buying/building stuff.
In any case, there are 2 important things to remember: 1) you need to have a vision/plan before your spend any serious dollars, and 2) you also need to start doing something fairly early or you’ll analyze things to death.
It sounds like your hobby shop guy is pointing you in a good direction. Oh - and welcome to the forum.
I’d go with a quality locomotive and real track. Get a “DCC-Ready” engine, so you can upgrade painlessly later on, but can run on DC for a while. When you’re ready for your second locomotive, that’s probably when the upgrade to DCC makes more sense. Instead of a train-set collection of rolling stock, get a few kits. Try at least one “intermediate” level kit, just for the sense of accomplishment.
Basic tracklaying is one of the first skills you need to master, so you’d might as well start. I have a construction foam base and I use Woodland Scenics foam roadbed. It’s not hard to master, but it does imply a certain amount of permanence. The advantage of sectional EZ-track is that you can put down and tear down a track plan many times. The disadvantage is lack of flexibility, and additional cost.
I like his idea of trying different scenery and building kits. I also like your idea of doing a lot of planning before you start anything. But, there is something to be said for just getting something down so you can run trains.
Keep it simple and take your time. I’ve been working on my current layout for almost a year now and am finally to the point of beginning some scenery.
If the set that the LHS clerk is recommending comes with steel track (black roadbed) ditch the track and get nickel-silver track (gray roadbed). You’ll save yourself a bunch of headaches.
The first layout that I built for myself was a simple double oval. Within a year, I joined the ovals so I could have two train operation and cross them over onto either track. When I got tired of that, I built a layout that was a folded dog-bone with several industries and lots of switching possibilities. 30+ years later I’m working on a layout with multiple trains running and some switching too.
I have always taken this approach to building a layout. I came out during the Lynn Westcott era and his approach to the hobby was to “grow a railroad.” Start simple (but use quality components) to get your feet wet and gradually build up your skills in all phases of the hobby. You can always add or change trackwork, scenery, structures etc to suit your interests. Heck, as Lynn would say, “the prototype railroads do this to suit the current needs - so can you.” One nice thing about this approach is that you are not stuck to doing one task at a time and get to sample all phases of the hobby - at YOUR leisure.
In answer to this, and several other points, I still have no firm grip on what I want to model, but I see myself as a builder not an operator. Of course, that’s today. 3 years from now maybe that will change?
Unfortunately there is no club very near to me, at least not one that my wife will tolerate the time to commute back and forth to.
Tracklaying: he suggested the kit because I could plug it in right away, but start laying real track almost immediately. Basically, the track would be a “throwaway” in the deal, while the cost of the train + power pack in the kit is cheaper than the sum of the two purchased individually.
I’m glad you said that, because one point this guy keeps making is that “if you do x, then change your mind, you’ll have to throw away all that track”. Maybe I’m naive but isn’t that the least of my worries? Kind of like worrying about losing a set of spark plugs when I total my car?
I agree with everything he said except for buying a train set and not going DCC from the start. The reason I would stay away from a train set is because they are not very good and will frustrate you to know end. At least buy a good quality locomotive like what Atlas, Proto 2000 or Kato offers. Keep it small, get a GP38 or something along that size. You don’t need a big loco for a small layout, at least not yet. As for not going DCC from the start in my opinion it is wrong. DCC is the best thing ever invented for Model Railroaders. You can pick up a Digitrax Zephyr and that will probably all you will ever need to run your layout. Unless you only plan on running one locomotive at one time then DC will be great but if your going to run two or more, you know you will, go DCC from the start. Good luck…
You could do worse than the Frontiersman set. The description on the Bachmann website says it comes with a DCC equipped Spectrum Consolidation, and nickel silver track. Apparently they’ve upgraded their rolling stock with metal wheelsets and knuckle couplers. While their Consolidation has been criticized for being generic, it’s far better trainset fare than anything that was available when I was young. Trainworld sells them for $159.99, just to give you a baseline price.
I think your LHS owner is offering good advice, assuming you don’t have an over-arching creative vision driving you. It’s a common pitfall to go the perfectionist route, bite off more than you can chew and then end up feeling overwhelmed. Whatever you choose, have fun doing it.
Your first paragraph above is central to what this hobby is all about. It must needs be, if you are to spend any time in it at all, a marriage between what you like, personality-wise, and that the hobby can afford you in all its infinite variations.
Everyone has their own approach. Yours is to be cautious, to second guess, to hate having someone pull a fast one on you. Yours is a responsible and mature approach to solving any problem in life. Haste when it is unnecessary is at best going to make you unhappy when other possible outcomes become apparent to you.
There is wisdom in just placing one foot in front of the other and beginning a journey. There is also wisdom in orienting the foot so as not to waste time or other resources. Perhaps there is a happy medium?
If you are reasonably assured that the set he would like you to buy is of a decent quality, then it is a reasonable first step. Without much time or expense, you can quickly learn what you don’t like about what you have and what you are doing with it. It permits you a basis, a reference point, on which to begin exploring other options.
All of us, every single one of us, learns as we go along. Every on
As a few others have said, I’d invest in a starter DCC system right away. It’s alot easier to get into it at the beginning than to wait until later and try to convert a fleet of DC locos.
DO NOT start with DCC. Dont shell out $300+ right away. Start with DC so you can just run trains. Once you get more of a feel for model railroading you can move on to DCC and decoders. If you start small and get bigger, you will pick up tricks of the trade.
Buy a train set, then if you want, possibly replace the engine, but otherwise it will serve you right. You can add scenery, etc and get a feel for everything.
