Please suggest a 4x16 track plan for HO scale. May consider N scale as well.

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
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Hi,

I’m trying to get started in model railroading again. I’m planning a 4x16 layout in my garage and leaning towards HO scale since I’ve got quite a bit of stuff left over from my first attempt about 10 years ago.

I may still consider N scale in the extra bedroom along three walls. If I went with N scale it would be about 1 foot wide most of it’s length with a wider area on each end to allow a loop, sort of a dog bone shape I guess.

I’d like to do a little of everything, switching a yard and industries, as well as allowing for continous loop operation so that when company is over they can see the trains going round etc.

Kinda leaning towards late 40’s steam/diesel transition era.

Would welcome any advice from you well seasoned modelers.

Thanks,

Flyer

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I don’t know how “well seasoned” I am, but I can throw one or two things out there for you.

First, get “Track Planning for Realistic Operation” by John Armstrong. It may be some of the best money you’ll spend on the hobby. Really! It’ll help you understand why and how trains do what they do.

Second, you’re likely not going to find a printed plan to suit your needs. Beside, you don’t want to build someone elses dream, do you? You want to build your own! That book I suggested will help a bunch in getting your own plan right.

Third, get some track planning software and plan your layout so that you kow everything will fit right. Post the plan here and let some of the excellent people here help you fine tune it. There are several free track planning softwares out there. Atlas has the RTS 7.0 software ( http://www.atlasrr.com/righttrack.htm ). Thats the one I use most because it’s easiest. It’s also the most basic though and it only has Atlas brand track in the library. There’s also Xtrkcad. It’s tougher to use, but more powerful of a program. There’s a yahoo group for this software. They are at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XTrkCad/ . Also, there’s a place you can download a fork of the program here (I think this is the program plus a new update): http://sourceforge.net/projects/xtrkcad-fork/ (this link may or may not work). The main website for this program is acting funny again (it has problems sometimes), but it’s at http://www.sillub.com/ .

EDIT: Another person I know is trying to download the Xtrkcad program right now is having difficulty. In trying to help,

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Why different spaces for the different scales? One could build quite and empire with 4x16 in n-scale.

A 4x anything in HO scale limits one to 22" radius curves. This isn’t neccessarily bad it is just something to be aware of.

There is tons of equipment for the late 1940s era available in both scales.

Depending where you live the garage could have heat/cold - dry/moist issues. Large and frequent changes in these parameters can really mess up a layout.

I guess I am wondering what sort of advice is being asked for.

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I guess I’m asking if anyone had a good track plan in HO scale that will fit a 4’x16’ area. It will be in my garage so I will be able to walk around the entire layout.

However, I’m still considering some type of N scale shelf type layout in one of the bedrooms.

Thanks,

Flyer

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Hey Phillip, do you still have that switching layout you designed for me on your website. That could be shrunk down a bit into 16x4.

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If I remember right it’s about halfway down the main page.

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Nice work, Philip!

These plans done with the Atlas RTS software program illustrate well thought-out yard throats and yard ladders in particular. Do take note of the inclusion for steam-service trackage. I like the “track flow” because if it works for steam, it will work for diesel, or traction as well.

I am in the process of learning this program to keep a reality-check on my “Givens & Druthers” before I begin the benchwork, and track purchases, for my Conemaugh Road & Traction. For example: Atlas RTS has certain built-in radius allowances, and I know this will keep me honest with what is feasible. This software will save a lot of frustration, time, and money down the road.

P.S.: Sound direction about combining parts of layouts that appeal to the layout builder while staying on point to construct your dream layout.

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About the differences in size due to scale change…

Well if I start over in N scale I’d like to put it in the house on a shelf along the walls of the guest room, so it won’t be a 4x16, it would be more like an L shape 15’ long x ? wide. What’s a reasonable crurve raidius for 6 axle locomotives and passenger coaches in N scale?

Thanks,

Flyer

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Flyer,

A 15 inch radius will work for most diesel loco’s. Larger is, of course, always better. Really, only your turnback “blobs” need to have this minimum radius as you could use larger elsewhere.

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Thank you Sir!

I model steam in N scale, so I just think that way. The thing is, most of the trackage from that timespan is either still in place, mostly in place, or even if most of the rail is now ripped up it still dictated where things are to some extent.

The trick is to keep the main flow and essential parts of the track piece and then taylor it to your application.

If you need a hand, just shout.

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Here are two radius tid-bits to ponder:

[1] From “Design Handbook of Model Railroads” by Paul Mallory…

Chapter Section 6.2 - Curves:

Figure 2 - Minimum Standard Gauge Radii
Sharp radius street car - N = 2.62" - HO = 4.8"
Conventional street car - N = 3.8" - HO = 7"
Heavy street cars & small interurban - N = 5.44" - HO = 10"
Common interurban & industrial - N = 7.5" - HO = 13.8"
Short cars & locos on tight prototype yard - N = 9.8" - HO = 18"
All but longest cars & locos - N = 13" - HO - 24"
Any model equipment - N = 22.9" - HO - 42"
Tight heavy steam locos - N = 26.9" - HO = 49.5"
Sharp prototype mainline curve - N = 39.2" - HO = 72"

This chart highlights the “gatekeeper reason” N Scale is ususally considered over HO Scale, and; that is what the modeler can accomplish within a given space with the desired locomotives & rolling stock.

[2] From “Spookshow,” an N Scaler who “thinks out loud” with common sense, and learning from past experience including discussion about track radius…

http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/layouts.html

P.S.: Thanks for the Atlas RTS tip Philip!

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First, let’s begin with a joke that makes a point. During a trip on a commuter airline, the Old Dog heard the following announcement, “This aircraft is about to depart for city-x, if your travel plans do not include city-x, now would a ‘VERY GOOD TIME’ to inform your flight attendant”. The “VERY GOOD TIME” to make improvements to the train room is before the layout is built. So NOW is the time to add more lighting, more electrical outlets, and maybe paint the floor.

Now, for some layout design concepts;

One, if it is ugly, hide it. Note that 22" radius curves are plug ugly.

Two, there is an old joke in high school debate, “our opponents case is like a male bovine, a point here, a point there, and a good deal b*ll in between”. Railroads are similar, a point of interest here, a point of interest there, and a good deal of boring track in between.

Three, on the other hand, on a model layout, it is desirable to have the caboose of a train leave station A before the engine reaches station B. In other words, stations and/or other points of interest need to be separated by at least one train length of hidden track but not much more. A train can be held in the hidden track for the length of time required to simulate running between the stations.

Four, why only use a piece of floor space only once when one can use it several times.

So let’s look at that 4’ by 16’ space. Assume that the layout is to be in a garage stall oriented north to south.

First, mark a 4’ by 4’ section at each end of the layout as the helix cabinet. These cabinets will be open on the ends that face each other. The other three sides of each cabinet will be closed with doors, removable panels, or maybe just curta

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tgindy,

If you find a section of track that you really like and want to use it whole, try adding it to a blank section of the plan and attach tracks to it from there. It’s kinda like playing connect the dots, except that you get to pick the dots.