G’day, Y’all,
This question is for anyone who ACTUALLY knows the inner workings of a steam locomotive.
My computer guy showed me the new water heater he had installed and he used a type of fitting called a “Shark’s Bite” which prevented leaking better than old types. This got me wondering what things have changed in plumbing or other areas which might make the servicing of a steam locomotive easier than back in “The Day”.
Not, of course, that I’d ever think we’d need to go back to steam.
The United States Navy has improved greatly on Steam. They call it nuclear power. Still boil lots of water to go very fast.
They specifically teach how to battle fix leaks in thier plumbing in training, they have to because the compartment can fill in moments and a great ship sunk in an hour.
There is nothing really that makes servicing easier, you still need to climb all over a steam engine to boot it in the morning. that takes time.
G’day, Y’all,
Right, but back in "The Day"pipefitters had to crawl or climb wherever there was a pipe fitting to check for leaks both steam and air. Can modern fittings eliminate the need for that? Was it something old timers did every time they fired up an engine or was it because they or another member of the maintenance crew decided the locomotive either wasn’t building enough steam or air pressure? Seems like it would have been real easy to find a steam leak. But the old saying was that the difference between a diesel and steam was that steam took five hours to find the problem and five minutess to fix while diesels took five minutes to find and five hours to fix. Or was it the other way around?
There are a few late model Chinese steamers in the USA,built in the 1990’s.I wonder if these are easier to maintain plumbing wise ? The old N&W had a “lubitorum” in which it’s steamers could be serviced quickly. Joe
Don’t know how applicable this might be to steam/superhot water use, but the ball valve has just about completely supplanted old style globe valves, and has rendered the gate valve obsolete, for ordinary water service. Considering the number of valve handles festooning a steam loco’s backhead, this might have a positive impact on the cost of maintaining the plumbing.
The big stress-maker in steam loco plumbing systems was the tendency to attach everything to the boiler, which expands when heated and contracts when cooled. IIRC, one of the smarter moves ever made was attaching all the air brake plumbing (including intercoolers) to the frame of NC&StL 4-8-4s - greatly reduced air leaks.
Chuck
It isn’t plumbing concerns that caused the demise it was overall maintenance. Wear was the big problem due to abrasive materials like cinders. Improvements in materials such as tungsten carbide coatings that are harder than the abrasive materials and glass filled teflon packing would no doubt have lowered the costs. However the rod pounding and subsequent track destruction would still have been with us as well as the myriad of devices on steam engines comapred to diesels. Add environmental concerns like NOX and SOX removal from coal and there are still reasons why it is impractical.
…And that ever present danger of boiler explosions…
even though domestic plumbing systems have advanced greatly - there is a big difference between plumbing for 80 psi domestic and plumbing for 250+psi steam. Steam fitters still have jobs.
dd
Gee, based just on the thread title, I was expecting a discussion about the johns now built into the nose of most newer locos, versus the “slide the shovel into the firebox” method popular in days of yore.
At least the shovel in the firebox method eliminates the stuff pretty quickly instead of leaving it sit on the engine and ripen in the hot sun. Mark
The welded fittings that have been used on freight car air piping since the late sixties have greatly reduced the leakage. Steam engines would see a similiar benefit. Mark
With the amount of disassembly required to do a proper inspection of a steam engine - I am not sure that welded fittings would be an advantage. Leaks aren’t as much of a problem on the locomotives that I work on as corrosion and contamination. Both of these problems require occasionsal replacement of parts.
dd
The piping is still removalble. The pipe is welded to the fitting which is bolted to the connection point. A rectangular section “O” ring is used as a gasket. Mark
Well, a shark bite is not a high pressure fitting. And there is no quick disconnect high pressure fittings that I know of. They may be good to maybe 150 psi where as most modern steam locomotives ran pressures of 250 to 350 psi. I was trained to run high psi steam power plants in the US Navy and still run them in the merchant marine aboard ships.
Thanks for all the information. Didance, are the things you have to replace due to abrasion off the shelf or do they have to be specially and expensively made?
If a Shark Bite is one of those mechanical connections I saw on a Home Improvement show, I have to wonder if it’s really better, or just a way to improve productivity, or just a way to avoid potential law suits over solder in water pipes. Properly soldered copper water pipes last the life of most buildings, so I’m not sure what they’re ‘fixing’. Just the opposite has occured in HVAC systems where regulations on the release of Feon means they now braze everything together rather than use compression fittings.
Rather than plumbing advances, I’d think advances in materials and especially adhesives and coatings would have more effect. These days you can glue things together that would have been unthinkable 50 years ago.
I wasn’t thinking that the Shark Bite would work on a locomotive but was just wondering what had changed since steam bowed out in 1949 with the last C&O 2-6-6-6. Everything seems to be built differently now than it was. That is just the natural rogression of technology. I just wondered if there was anything in plumbing, especially in high pressure plumbing, that would make a steam engine built today easier to service. I agree with the poster who pointed out that you still have to crawl all over the engine.
You are spot on about adhesives, UP 829. It is amazing what dentists can do with a little glue now. As I get older, I grow more appreciative of such advances.