I am considering making the benchwork for my future layout totally out of plywood, including legs, girders, bracing and everything else.
Has anyone had experience doing this? With the quality of lumber today [:(] it seems to me that plywood would be more dimensionally stable and not look like a spiral staircase like wood from HD or a lot of lumber yards.
If using plywood, what thickness would be best?
Is any type of plywood more dimensionally stable than the others?
Another plywood question - how well do screws hold that are screwed into the edges of birch plywood? What if the joint is also glued with yellow carpenters glue?
As sort of practice for benchwork a year or so ago (and because I needed them), I built a couple bookshelves out of 3/4" plywood.
David Barrow recommends this for his “dominoes”.
Lesson learned - I will not screw into the ends of plywood ever again. No matter how careful I was (i.e. using pilot drill holes, etc.), the plies would split apart. For my bookshelves that go in the clost, it was no big deal.
So when I built benchwork again, I’ll definitely use 2x2 corner pieces or something to drill into, instead of the ends of the plywood.
I tried making some L-girders from plywood one time. Didn’t go over very well. Every time I tried screwing the two pieces together, it would split. I settled on just glueing them together, but when I put pressure on the joint, It broke apart at the edges. The only thing I use plywood for now is the baseboard.
I used dimensional lumber for the L-girders and plywood only for the subroadbed. Plywood works well for scenic forms also. When I do not have dimensional lumber I do use plywood. If you use plwood for the L girders and legs and such use the 3/4" and predrill the holes for screws, and glue the joints.
If you dado the plywood you can screw into the end grain and the dado will keep the plys from spreading. A dado is a groove cut in the plywood with a router or Dado blade in a table saw. Checkout some of the woodworking mags at the news stand. There are often great articles on working with plywood. The guys are right though, you won’t have much luck trying to screw into end grain.
Screws into the edges of plywood is a waste of time — even if you don’t split the plywood edge. Just like screws don’t hold well in end grain of regular lumber.
Buuuuttt! There is a way! 1" X 1" (actually 3/4" x 3/4") blocks of pine, oak or whatever screwed to the face of the plywood that you think needs a screw in the edge grain and then put the “edge grain” screw into the block of pine. I’ve built all kinds of cabinet work that way and never had a failure.
Tom,
You’re right about the quality of dimensional lumber. I haven’t tried this, but I plan to when I do my next benchwork… many of our members have mentioned using a product called a Kreg pocket hole jig. It allows you to insert the screw at an angle through the face of the bracing pieces rather than into the ends. One link with some photos of its use: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=1&TOPIC_ID=57523 . Do a search on Kreg and you’ll find lots of mentions.
I am considering making the benchwork for my future layout totally out of plywood, including legs, girders, bracing and everything else.
A mix of high quality ply and semi-hardwood is best. The initial cost might be more but, if you put it together carefully, it will stay good for an extremely long time.
Has anyone had experience doing this? With the quality of lumber today [:(] it seems to me that plywood would be more dimensionally stable and not look like a spiral staircase like wood from HD or a lot of lumber yards.
Yes. See my earlier posts going to great length about benchwork. I’m 18 stone and the boards I’ve made will take my weight in all three directions with no distortion. The problem with most (cheap) wood is that it has been chopped, transported, kiln dried and shipped to the shop for you to buy before it starts to wiggle…
If using plywood, what thickness would be best?
Is any type of plywood more dimensionally stable than the others?
These two Qs go together. In reverse order…
The higher the quality of ply you get the better and the less thick it needs to be. In the UK we have something called WBP - Water and Boil Proof - This is usually the highest grade you would need. You’d only need to go to marine ply if you have serious climate problems…which wouldn’t help your trains anyway.
There are (logically) two elements of ply to consider. A the wood and B the glue. You want as many laminations as looks sensible… which means 1/4" ply wants to be 6-8 sheets of wood NOT 3. When you look at the edge you also want to see continous layers of both not big gaps. An example of what you do not want is construction industry sh
Plywood is the way to go…
Forget screws - beg, borrow or steal an air compressor and a nail gun. I’ve also used biscuits, but air nalling is much faster.
Always use glue - regular yellow glue just fine. The exotic “no nails” glues aren’t needed. I use Type II (Weather resistent) carpenters glue and never had a properly fitted joint fail.
Unless you are building “airplane wing” style benchwork, use at least 1/2" plywood with 5 or more plies. I use 3/4" A/C plywood as a direct replacement for 1x lumber. I’ve also found that properly fitted, glued and nailed 3/4" ply needs NO extra blocking or gussets.
Remember, plywood is strongest along the grain of it’s face plies.
There are some downsides
You have to machine the plywood strips
3/4" ply doesn’t weight any less then 1x lumber
Birch ply is expensive. (I used A/C pine and fir which is less costly)
Oriented strandboard is rapidly replacing plywood for structural uses. It is more dimensionally stable because the content is more uniform. It is made with wood chips, NOT particles like particle board, which are oriented so the fibers are aligned laterally in one layer and longitudinally in the next. The chips are then impregnated with resin, laid down in the alternating layers, and then pressed together with great pressure and heat. The exterior version can stand up, unpainted, to upper peninsula Michigan winters - OUTDOORS !
Try it and see if you like it. It is cheaper too because they do not have to use the largest trees to make it. I have screwed into the edges and it holds good just like anywhere.
Welcome Tom, this is an age old question. There are several threads on this topic. I would recommend getting “Basic Model RR Benchwork” by Jeff Wilson or “How to Build Model RR Benchwork” by Linn Westcott to get some ideas of the various methods available.
Here is what I am doing.
I used dimensional lumber, 1x3, 2x2 and 1x2 for understructure. I was just real picky when selecting at HD. I can attest to the pocket hole thread reference above. Don Z and I live close and Don helped me get started. The pocket hole jig will set you back ~ $80 but if you have a large layout then in my opinion it is worth it. The jig makes it easy to drill the holes and the joints are strong and tight. All of mine are done this way with no glue.
Including the 2x2 legs with 1x2 bracing.
Pre-built sections and bolted together.
Last, I used 1/2" birch ply for the decking. It is smooth on both sides. Nail gun made quick work of securing it down. Then, everything got a coat of latex paint as I am building in the garage and have humity where I am.
I have a relativly large (22 X30) double deck layout that is entirely plywood with hundreds of but joints. I used 3/4" plywood cut to 3 and 3.5" wide strips. I drilled pilot holes and did not have a big issue splitting ends, no more so than regular lumber. Occasionally one would, but not often. I did not use corner blocks. My benchwork is several years old and rock solid.
Particle and strand boards are great for what they are designed for…which IMO isn’t model RR track bases… but, if you like it…
I would agree that you can get away with screwing and nailing thick ply… I just prefer to use the thin stuff. It may be more work at the start but in 45 years of toy trains I’ve not seen its equal for stability over a long period. You can also design the frame to move house should you want to.
The thing to remember is to enjoy what you’re doing.
Weirdest thing… I absolutely never thought of that.
All the boards I have worked with have hardly been painted at all. Mostly any paint went on the facia to make it look pretty.
If you were to prime or varnish (don’t know which would be better) you would want to not do so where you are going to glue as it could affect the workings of the glue/the quality of the bond… so - presumiably - treat after fabrication.
BTW I was thinking about the girders… you could gusset 1/4" ply with 1/2" traingle section along most of the girder’s length.
Pay my airfair and feed me for a couple of weeks and I’ll come over to help[8D]
