Hi
I am designing a 4x8 layout split by a backdrop running the length of the table. The layout is modeling a short line that will have a continuous loop, but will want to \run point to point from the 2 towns on each side of the backdrop. One town interchanges with the WP, the other town, up a 4% grade, has a copper-gold mine. Haul empty ore cars and timbers up to the mine, run loaded ore cars down to interchange with the WP who takes the cars to a distant smelter. Will be running Bachmann Spectrum 4-6-0 and 3-truck Shay. No room for wyes or turntables. Instead of running around the loop, would like to run point to point when operating the layout.
Main question is regarding prototype operation without wyes or turnatables.
Would the locomotiitve run forward up the grade with the empites and backwards (in front of the train) down the grade with the loaded ore cars?
Or vice-versa?
Thanks
John
My On30 layout has a very similar setup to yours, and I didn’t provide any special run around tracks for the spurs that extend beyond the turnouts. While I’m sure some railroads did use run around tracks, I’ve seen several videos of shortline and logging railroads where they simply reversed the trains direction, and either pushed or pulled the cars up and down the grades depending upon where they were on the hill, and I didn’t see much in the way of locomotive direction preference (this is kind of hard to tell from the videos anyway).
I preferred this method on my layout as it required the least amount of physical space, and really made running the trains fun while navigating the grades… [:D]
When there was no other choice, locomotives pointed uphill when there were steep grades. This provided better coverage of the crown sheet (containing the engine’s fire) in the boiler. If water didn’t cover the crown sheet, it would get so hot it would melt/fail, resulting in a boiler explosion. Locomotives were generally on the downhill end of the train. Since it was more difficult slowing/stopping when going downhill, being in front gave better visibility in the vulnerable direction.
Worry not… your setup will be prototypical of many shortlines. My railroad will run in a similar fashion, with the locomotive backing down from the mining/logging areas pulling the loaded cars. I’ll be sure to have the caboose at the end to assist in braking down the grade. The Cass Scenic Railroad in Cass, WV does this still… the train crew set hand brakes to help control the train on the descent. [tup] [tup]
Maybe it’s my inexperience, but isn’t 4% kinda strong?
Good answer, markpierce. On switchbacks, the loco merely reverses, then advances, reverses, advances, and so on. My 0-6-0 pulls my ore cars by reversing to the grade, advances through the switch onto the grade, but by pushing the ore cars up ahead of it. On the way down, the reverse is true. Either way, the crown sheet needs insurance.
[quote]
Originally posted by BigRedneckRob
Maybe it’s my inexperience, but isn’t 4% kinda strong?
As a rule yes for main line railroads but,there are exceptions.
Now logging and mining railroads could see grades as stiff as 12%!! This is where the geared locomotives come into play as Shays,Climax’s and other such locomotives could climb grades that steep.
I have a similar situation
The railway I am starting to model was also high in the mountains, and all the accounts call it “push-pull” on loco in front, one in back. None of the records say which way the rear loco was facing, it may have been facing backwards, although not necessarily since this was the single main line, not an industrial or mining spur.
I haven’t laid track yet so here’s my question…I am just getting back into to this after many years away from model rr…so in some ways I am a newbie…
Could the rear loco facing the opposite direction be done in a model situation, where the direction depends on the polarity in the electric motor of the engine? This would have one forward and one back…yacchh…
Since it was steam era, there are no dummys available and the railway used a wide variety of steam locos…
Eridani,
Usually the helper loco (on the rear) faced the same direction as the lead loco. If the train had to back down the hill this would still be the same, especially if there was concern of exposing the firebox crown sheet, as previously mentioned. Two locomotives would also help with braking on the downgrade.
You needn’t worry about polarity. If you take 2 loco’s and place them on the same section of track but facing opposite directions they should still run the same direction because when you turn the loco around you reverse polarity to its motor at the same time. One runs forward, one runs backward, but both in the same direction. Note this is in DC mode, not DCC, where a decoder in the loco controls direction. Loco’s in DCC can have authentic head-on collisions if the operators aren’t careful! [:O]
I’ll have to figure out where I saw this if you need details, but there is a mine run out of Hazard, KY that works like that today. The added benefit is that they still use a caboose! As they back down the the branch, the caboose leads the way and is the safety check for grade crossings. Pretty neat, and there is a current prototype for it!
David