The discussion of Joe Fugate’s weathering technique of using tempera paint powder mixed with plaster then misting with water so the plaster can “set” the paint got me wondering. Has anyone tried spreading light weight Hydrocal powder into mortar lines and then misting it with water to create brick mortar? I’ve tried other techniques --using a wash of grey acrylic diluted with alcohol, or painting on undiluted acrylic and then wiping clean the surface-- and was not satisfied with the results. The wash, when it dried, left visible “puddle” outlines on the brick surface and the paint-then-wipe method is very unforgiving if you don’t get it right the first time and quick. I’m thinking that just a little Hydrocal powder sparingly worked into the mortar lines with a brush or finger tip and then a gentle but thorough misting using an atomizing bottle to set it might do the trick. Since the Hydrocal shouldn’t stick until wetted, you can take your time getting it just the way you like it before misting. I would think a subsequent very diluted black India ink alcohol wash would quickly weather the entire building as well as tone down the Hydrocal from white to gray. The unknown is whether the Hydrocal, after being misted, will actually stick to the model (which would already have been painted with an appropriate brick red), or just crumble apart and fall out.
Sounds like it could work. I use powdered chalk myself. I just brush it on, wipe it off with a moistened finger and what is left is whats in the mortar lines. A spray with Matte-Finish locks it in place.
My only concern with any of the “grout” type techniques is that I think you end up with overly thick and therfore pronounced mortar lines on the structure. Just my opinion, but look at a real brick building from a distance and the mortar lines become insignificant.
What I do from time to time, if I want mortar lines to be apparent, is to spray paint the walls with some sort of Tuscan or boxcar red, and then when it’s dry, brush-paint on Polly Scale Dust. I don’t thin it either, just brush it on. Because you’re covering the darker color with something lighter, the dark wall shows through except at the mortar lines. I read this technque in MR, but don’t remember the source. Anyway, it works better than wiping off some thicker substance, because that technique usually leaves sparse mortar lines in the open areas and too much mortar near trim.
I’ve seen this said before and it’s probably more true for me since I’m modeling N scale. I think I might try this Hydrocal idea I have if I can get my hand on a scrap piece of plastic brick wall to test it out (I’m too chicken to try it on the model I’m finishing up now), but if this technique disappoints me like the others have, I’ll probably just leave my buildings without grout treatment and not feel too bad about it since it would be in line with the notion that at my scale they become insignifcant.
Both Wimberly and Vollmer have given some good techniques - tried and proven. Vollmer’s came from a technique which I first saw prognosicated in N-Scale magazine many years ago. Model Rails are forever reinventing the wheel so this technique could very well have been picked up in an MR piece sometime.
As far as your hydrocal idea, I’m not sure how it would work. I’ve never tried it; you could probably test your theory by making a (healthy) scribe someplace on a piece of styrene, applying hydrocal and checking the results.
Keep us posted!!!
There was an article in MR last year (I think) about this sort of thing. I don’t have the issue in front of me, but if you want it, let me know and I’ll look it up when I get home from work.
If I remember correctly, you paint the wall the color of the mortar, then go back with a sponge with very little brick-colored paint on it (almost dry), and pat the sponge over the brick faces. You’ll end up with the brick color on the faces of the bricks, but the recessed mortar lines will still be the original mortar color.
I actually had no trouble with the thinned “flood” technique as I call it. I used a light gray, near white color (aircraft gray I think), thinned it 50/50 and brushed it on.
I used a small, fine brush, and any place it was too thick, I took thinner on the brush and wiped it off.
My results:
Well, you caught me at just the right time. I’m putting together the very small DPM “Pam’s Pet Shop” building, so I figured I could do one wall with the hydrocal technique as suggested. In the past, I’ve used the “King Arthur” method of rubbing plain baking flour into the mortar grooves, and then overspraying with Dul-Coat.
The hydrocal went on smoother than flour, and filled the grooves well. I’ve found that I need to really overdo it with flour, because most of it just disappears. With hydrocal, I definitely put on too much, and now I’ve got more mortar than I want. However, I think that will get better with a bit of India Ink wash, since it’s now bright white.
Spraying was a pain. I didn’t want to spray straight down, because that would disturb the hydrocal and give an uneven finish. So, I took the wall outside and sprayed above it, letting the spray “rain down” the way I would do with ballast. This would be a mess indoors in the winter! The good news is that once the hydrocal set, it was fine and did not flake off.
Right now, the wife has the camera with her, so I’m going to stop here before the India Ink step, so I can take some pics and post them. So, for now it’s a qualified success.
MrBeasley, its great to hear that your testing this. Thanks for taking a chance on it. I’m trying to do a trial as well; I picked up a sheet of brick face (HO scale, not N, but for testing purposes it shouldn’t matter) from my LHS. I’ve given it a coat of the same spray paint I used on my model (Floquil Tuscan) and once dry I’ll try applying the Hydrocal powder.
Btw, what is your “recipe” for your india ink wash? I need to mix some up and was wondering how many parts of water or alcohol to ink is typical.
A technique I’ve been using since the 60’s uses a couple things you might find in the house: talcum powder and hair spray. It goes along with my old mantra “just because something is made to do a specific job doesn’t mean that’s the only thing you can do with it.”
After painting the walls with your selected brick color and allowing it to dry throughly, hold the wall section flat and sprinkle on some talcum powder. Rub your finger lighlty over the wall to force the powder into the mortar grooves. When you get the look you want, hold the hair spray can back at least a foot and spray it up in the air so the mist settles on the wall section (spraying directly will blow the talc out of the grooves). Don’t panic, this makes the powder disappear until the hair spray dries. Repeat on the other walls.
Another beauty of this method, if you don’t like the results, just take an old tooth brush and hold the wall under running water and brush it out. When that dries, you can try again.
Here are the pictures I promised. First, a section of wall that was mortared with hydrocal, and an un-done section with the same paint for comparison. The hydrocal actually is much brighter white than the photo indicates. I put way too much on:
This is a closer detail of the mortar. As I mentioned above, this is a DPM kit, Pam’s Pet Shop. The mortar grooves are deeper than they are on DPM’s Front Street Building, which I’m also working on right now, but shallower than the Atlas roundhouse or Model Power engine house I built earlier. There seems to be a lot of variation between kits of how deep they make the mortar lines.
Next, I took some India Ink in water and darkened the original one on the left. Next to it, again for comparison, is another section which has been mortared but not weathered.
This small section is from the front of the building. I went lighter on the hydrocal, and I like the effect better.
Right now, the parts are all drying out after their brushing with India Ink. We’ll see what they look like in the morning.
This is very interesting and it seems that the technique deserves some consideration.
by comparison, this is a Walthers kit that I used the flowing on of mortar colored paint technique. The mortar is not nearly as pronounced.
I have some DPM kits on the shelf and will take a stab at one of them as well with this technique.
Haven’t tried the Hydrocal technique, but I have had success with plain old joint compound. After using the diluted paint method, the paint the walls mortar color and spong on the brick color method with decent results I was looking for something a little easier and happened to have some joint compound (spackle) left over from a construction job. Used it on a Bachman city scenes hotel that I had first painted the brick surface with a cheap can of brown primer from Lowe’s, it has a reddi***int. Rubbed the spackle in, wiped off the excess and it looks great. Good luck with the Hydrocal it sounds like it has potential.
I’ve completed the test and I’m happy with the results. I picked up a sheet of plastic with brick pattern from my LHS for the trial; he only had HO scale handy, so I used that, but the results are encouraging enough that I’ll probably try this technique on the N scale DPM building I have in the works.
To begin with, I spray painted the brick sheet with Floquil Tuscan. After letting that sit for a day, I sprinkled on WS Hydrocal powder and worked it evenly into the mortar lines using my finger:
I then used a small pump spray bottle I found at Target in the travel item section to thoroughly mist the sheet with water. I did so by indirectly spraying and letting the mist cascade down on the sheet. Here it as just after being misted:
(Note: At about the 20-30 minute point after misting, I gently rubbed my finger over the surface to dislodge any Hydrocal particles sitting on the brick face surface.)
Here it is after I left it to dry overnight:
I then applied an India ink wash (recipe: 3 mil 70% alcohol + 3 mil water + 1 drop of ink) to 1/3 of the surface (here it is while still wet):
And then soon after applied another wa***o that 1/3 plus the middle 1/3, giving me 1/3 with no wash, 1/3 with one wash and 1/3 with two washes (here wet):
And here it is finished, with the unwashed 1/3 on the left and the double washed third on the right:
I think my wash mix was fairly light, so the difference is subtle (even more so in the photo). Even so, it helped to tone down the stark white of the Hydrocal.
Great work guys. Really good info. Thanks for putting it up.
MisterBeasley those look like some old buildings I use to work in years ago. To me anyhow, very realistic. I will try it out. Thanks
letsgored Ok I am a tad confused. You say it is a wash but then I see it is all black then in the next pic it is gone. Did you wipe it off? And if so how soon after applying it and with what did you wipe it and how hard? Thanks ahead of time.
Actually FSM, I think it just dried. I use a very a wash very much like the one he listed. It goes on dark, then lightens as it dries.
I used ground up white chalk and rubbed it on with my fingers and it worked really well.
As canazar said, the “dark” wash pictures are right after I applied it and it was still wet. It was my first time using an ink wash and when it went on my first thought was “Oh no, that’s way too dark”. But once dry it was much lighter. If anything, I would probably up the ink content in my wash for next time.
What I liked most about this method was the infinite work time. I could take all the time I wanted applying the Hydrocal powder to get it just the way I wanted it before misting. For an anal type such as myself, that’s a good thing.