Possible Layout plan, take a peak

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
1

Well I have been peaking away at this for a month now. Room / Garage is 19 x 26 feet. I was total amazed and depressed how fast HO ate the spaces up.

Here is what I wanted.

1 Mountains

2 4 lines, 2 fast freight and 2 branch lines

3 Bridges

4 Rail Yard

5 Engine House and Turn Table (it was low on the priority)

6 Coal Mine

7 Grain Elevator

8 Big Speed Shop (after all I am Cuda Ken)

9 100 feet plus run’s on the two fast freight lines.

Could not find the right plan to get everything in I wanted, but this may work.

What I did get in.

1 Big Coal mine with a yard that should hold my 65 coal cars.

2 3 Lines, Red, Blue and Black. Black line is independent so far. Still a pain to draw turnouts. It is elevated 3.5 to 4 inches where it crosses over the Red and Blue Line. Not sure yet how I will elevated at the bottom. Rather it be a berm, wall or just trestles.

3 3 to 4 reversing loops (Have not counted them yet or checked for shorts.

4 Grain Elevator and bakery or a Brewery.

5 Power Plant, finally someone to buy my coal.

6 Some tunnels.

7 30 inch reach in most areas except the top right and top left. Top of the plan is my Garage Door, so for construction I can get on both sides. Top right will have a lift of mountain and a pop hatch if needed.

8 More switching than I ever thought would fit in.

9 Holding yard for my rolling stock. The big round thing it wraps around is a 5 HP compressor abd I have about 4 inches between it and the wall.

Problem area is where the short 3 foot wall is located. Need about another 1 foot for a walk way.

Feel free to make suggestions. I used the Atlas RTS 8.0 if you like a copy of the

2

Hi Ken.

This is a large plan with lots of track so I won’t have the time to study it all at once, but I’ll comment on things I see right off. Its tough to make out a schematic of how it would operate, so any thought here is kind of quick and dirty.

I like the looping tracks to the power plant and whatever is in the peninsula. Modern industries use those balloon types of tracks and I think simulating balloon tracks is a good way for modeler’s to try to hide the dreaded turn back blob.

I don’t care for the one track that is apparently elevated above all others and circles the room. I think that track has all of the bridges too. It may look good when sceniced, but right now that elevated track kind of reminds me of the one that’s on my son’s Thomas train wooden layout. [:)] The way that it connects to the rest of the layout, there in the lower left, looks like it might complicate the grades and benchwork of the entire layout too. Maybe I’m seeing it differently than what is.

If you eliminated the large reverse loop on the bottom, it sort of doubles the power plant spur visually, the benchwork could be narrower which might give you more room to broaden the radius of the peninsula and still maintain the same aisle space. Maybe you can then use the base of the peninsula to complete another reverse loop to make up for the one you would lose. I think I would make this trade off.

3

Another version of the same plan.

Ken

4

Couple of things:

I would put in another crossover from blue to red ont eh right hand side. On the left side you cross from blue to red, although it ends up being blue then as you get to the bottom - a crossover back the other way would let you take trains back to red without backing up. There should be enough space there to fit the turnouts in.

Upper right - what’s goign on there? It looks liek it would be perfect for a loads in/empties out arrangment with the coal mine on one side of the mountain and the power plant on the other. Cover the tracks between the two. Empty coal hoppers get taken to the coal mine and shoved in. Another train would pull a line of empties out of the power plant - same set of cars. The mine train would pull out a set of loaded cars and shove them in to the power plant - guess where the loaded cars that get pulled from the mine come from? That would get your power plant out of the center of town so you could either have more of a town or put in a few more industries to switch.

–Randy

5

Hey Ken,

Can I ask what are you looking to run, I am seeing some pretty tight radius especially on that peninsula.

Does each line have it’s own min radius?

Also did you think about making the yard come off a wye so trains coming out of the yard can go either direction?

Chris

6

What I see is a twice around run from the staging loops to the return loop in the wide section.

How I would change it would be to do the following:

1- Bring the staging loops onto the mainline at a wye so trains can go either way as Chris suggested. I have done this on a previous layout and it is really a flexible arrangement.

2- Make the mainline to a twice around single track line, all in the same direction. That way you can narrow down that wide section some and still put the grain elevator there.

3- Make the mine a loads in, empties out arrangement through a mountain, also as suggested (Connects the mine and power plant with three or four tracks through a mountain.). Make the mine and the power plant the end of the line. Then use one of the tracks as a run through when you just want to see trains run. Otherwise the layout can be operated point to point. Some type of industrial trackage will be needed at each end for run arounds etc.

Another thought that just occurred to me is: If you made the staging wye onto the mainline at the Mine and Power Plant on either side of the mountain between the two, your run would be from staging through the mine area, around the layout, through the Power Plant area and back to staging. A mainline track could go through the mountain bypassing both industries to make the connection for the wye for just round and round running without going through the mine or power plant. Now both industries would have a small industrial area off the mainline at each end, plus three or four connecting tracks through the mountain for the loads in, empties out arrangement.

4- Once you have resorted out the twice around single track mainline, you may be able to punt in another small junction for a branch. I have a twice around arrangement that I am building now, and I have a branchline that goes to an upper level. I don’t know if that would be an option for you or not.

I hope

7

There is a lot of wasted space in some of the loops but the worst part is that it has a duck-under or other. Can’t quite understand where the one door is the way you drew it.

8

Thanks for the comments, here are a few answers.

On the door, if you mean the thing on the left middle, that is a window mounted A/C.

Cross over from the blue to red line. Yes there will be some, but they can be a pain to draw in. Hit the wrong button and track goes flying across the screen.

Radius, the bloop has 22 inch going in and where it turns around is down to 20. The track that goes to the mine is 18. One that I really don’t like is where the black line crosses the blue and red and it make a downward turn, that is 24 inch. The rest are 26 inch or bigger.

Far as the engines I run, most are Big. Diesels are E-6’s, Dash 9’s, GE 6000’s, RSD 15, SD 50’s, SD 7 and a handful of F units. Steam are Big Boy, Y6 b, Hudson, M1a and a Heavy Mike.

Far as one main that crosses over it self? The way the bench is, it sort of can be ran that way now. But, my main goal was to be able to run 4 trains at the same time on different lines. That way if or when I get distracted they don’t catch each other.

Lift out or duck under, really don’t want one. But it seems to be the only way to get what I looking for. Here are a few plans that I have tried.

This is second best, and like the yard.

This one shows one line being a duck under, but that could be avoided.

Thanks for your time.

Ken

9

Well, I personally like the second one. You can get some nice scenery in there and a nice long run. You have good room for a yard, AND if you worked it right, you could put a staging yard/area under the main yard.

This plan would be good for an operating type layout, rather than a run and forget type that you seem to be leaning toward.

10

Thanks for the comment Elmer. Far as the big yard, it is more to hold trains than switching. I do favor the run and forget style. I am doing that as I type.

Why do you see more operation potential in the second plan than the first I listed? Is it because of the big yard?

While I still like the second plan, the reach is far in spots and the walk way is to narrow. I could cut down the passenger station to one spur, and drop a couple of rungs off the yard. It all so has longer runs than the first, I think they are all in the 100 feet range.

Any other comments folks?

Ken

11

This thought also hit me once I saw Plan #2 – with a Helix under either the right peninsula, or at the left side, where there already is proven radius-space for those “dogbone ends.” Even on a lower sub-level where there would be no staging – there could be the equivalent of an 18" shelf layout (with countryside scenery) adding to a longer mainline (or 2-track mainline) feeling – perhaps stopping at an industry spur siding. Sub-level staging could “free-up” some of the upper-side trackage for a more spacious feeling, but; that said, Plan #2 is a good candidate for operations, all by itself without any staging sub-level.

12

hi cudacan

i am a bit bewildered by your plan. Some parts are really wide and will cause reach-in problems.

A far more linear approach is possible.

paul

13

Paul ( cudacan )?

Must lost something in the translation.

Thank you for the effort, but I am not a point to point person. Far as reach, that is why I like the first plan. In the upper left hand corner the mountains would be a lift all and a pop up under them if I needed to get there for work. Plus the top of the picture is a garage door that I can open if I have to.

Back to the drawing board.

Ken

14

hi ken,

i let staging open; the two ends can be connected by through staging…It will give you a pretty long mainline. In my design you don’t even need pop ups or a garage door.

Paul

15

You did get me thinking Paul, just played with a quick plan. What radius did you use on the peninsula?

Thanks again.

Ken

16

hi ken,

i used 24" as a minimum radius, think 30" is possible.

paul

17

Keep the benchwork width down on either side of the turnback part of the penninusla and 36" radius is doable.

I count 19 feet wide for the space. 7 feet for the 36" radius turnback loop, with enough space outside the rails to have scenery before the cliff to the floor, take out another 8 feet to allow for 4 foot aisles on either side, and the benchwork along the walls could still be 2 feet wide on each side.

–Randy

18

Some comments as the occur to me.

  1. Do you really want a duckunder? I have one and it’s a pain.

  2. I find that straight track, running along the edge of the table emphasizes the edge. The two straight features, the edge and the track re enforce each other and make it more obvious that the HO gauge world has an edge. If you put some gentle curves in either the track or the table edge things look more natural.

  3. Think about a double track main. You want to be able to run as many trains at the same time as you can. OK, do like the prototype, run two tracks side by side. Go clean around the benchwork. You can run “east bound” trains and “west bound” trains. The double track takes up little more layout space than a single track, so you get more track in less space. You only need one set of telegraph poles, bridges, grade crossing protection, fences, ballast. For that matter go all the way and do a pair of double track mains, that gets you up to four trains operating at the same time.

  4. Consider a viewblock down the middle of the peninsula. That prevents spectators seeing both sides of the peninsula at the same time. The trains look most real when the enter a scene and leave the scene. If instead of leaving the scene, the train runs back where it came from on the other side of the peninsula some of the illusion is broken.

  5. Others have suggested a loads in empties out setup for the coal mine and the power station. That’s a good idea. Otherwise a loaded coal train arrives at the power station and then heads back to the mine? Has the power company rejected the coal and is sending it back ? Whereas a hidden track that lets the loaded coal cars slip back to the mine out of side looks much cooler. Like wise it can let a train of empties arrive at the mine and move out of sight back to the power sta

19

hi Ken and Randy

be careful, you forget about about the tracks closest to the door; and the door takes space too; especially if it is opening into the room. A 30" minimum radius is easily doable, i changed it in the trackplan…and have a look at Great Model Railroads of this year. The layout by Bernard Kempinski shows how some space between the tracks and the edge can improve the appearance of a scene.

Paul

20

Dstarr, if you look at my wants again (first post in this thread) I was hoping for 4 main lines. In the second plan I had 4, but a couple of the reaches where a little wide. There was all so a train station on that one by the yard.

First plan, while lacking a train station and yard, is a 3 main line. My current layout has 2 mains with a 97 foot and 72 foot run.

Far as the John Armstrong books, I have read 3 of them. Yes I remember the joke about the power company not wanting the coal.

Far as duck under, or lift out, I don’t want one, but at the same time I may have to have one.

Plan Paul listed was more to stir the brain juices as far as the bench goes.

If you don’t mind, would you look at plan 1 and 2 again, tell me what you like about them and don’t. And if you had to pick one, which one.

Everyone, thank you for your time and effort.

Ken