Ok, let me get this right… Earlier model diesels and steamers had horozontial/verticle gears and were made of metal, thus, they are very noisy, hence the term “coffee grinder”. But, in the later fifties, the gears were made horizontal/verticle and made of plastic, making them sound more like todays engines. Is this correct?
Thanks
I don’t see how vertical or horizontal would make a difference, but plastic would probably be quieter than metal, especially if you didn’t lubricate it. I do know that some motors are built right onto the trucks, and those can tend to be a little louder. Some motors are vertical, and also encased in the body, which might damped the sound some. I wouldn’t really be concerned about it, regardless. The metal gears will last longer.
Wes
Grayson,
I’m not sure what you mean by noisy? My 2020 and 681 aren’t noisy other than you can hear the sidebars clinking, which you would have heard on a live steamer as well… are you refering to the motorized units like the Trolley and Gangcar? If so I think the reason for their noisiness is they use a different type of motive power. There is an armature that rotates within a magnet and if not properly maintained can get noisy over time.
I had my trolley and gangcar serviced before last Christmas, the trolley had to be sent out to have the armature rewound and a basic overhaul of the entire motor. The Gangcar simply needed a COMPLETE cleaning and lube job. They both run better than new now (I wouldn’t know what they ran like new, but the service guy swears that when his were new they didn’t run this smooth or as quite… he said he was going to have the same work done on his! LOL!)
There’s no doubt that post war locomotives are noisier than the modern ones. Some are louder than others.
As for the growl, I think the early F3s had horizontal motors and were louder than the later ones with vertical motors. Honestly, I forget how that story goes. If I’m wrong, I’m sure someone will be happy to correct me.
Jim
Yes, I have 2 F3 with hoizontal motors…yes they are loud…but i like the sound of them roaring down the track…i have none with vertical motors but i do have an FM with vertical motors and it is very quiet…and pulls more that the F3’s…my turbines are quiet as well…but not my 1946 version turbines…they are noisy…GG1’s with any motors are quiet as well…that makes no sense to have plastic gears…they will shread to pieces…with all those rpm’s they will melt…just a thought…thanks
I think what makes PW engines louder than their modern counterparts are the mechanical e units and AC motors. Some e-units tend to buzz louder than others, but if I were to turn the e-units off in some of my PW locos, they purr down the track. Out of all my postwar locos, my 2321 is by far the quietest.
Most of today’s engines use DC motors and circuit board e-units.
If they are machined well, metal gears can be every bit as quiet as plastic gears.
Look at the 675/2025 for example, which, when properly lubricated, can be nearly dead silent. Both of these have metal gear trains, but they were very well machined.
Similarly, in my experience, my 681 is relatively quiet, although not nearly as smooth as my 675.
The same can also be said of my 2023 Alcos, which are also very smooth runners. These are all metal gears with a vertical motor.
Conversely, though, both my 2055 and 2056 are rough and loud. Even after cleaning and lubrication, they remain that way.
They are all loud on FasTrack!
Lionel FUNDIMENSIONS era switchers are definitely “growelers”, and can’t pull much either to boot.
You are a little off. Latter f3s had metal gears, but the design of the truck and gearing system were changed. They were not as noisy, but still noisier than todays engines with flywhels. It was a more direct gearing sytem than the earlier.
This is a chart that I made up to show the evolution of Lionel’s drive trains in non-steam postwar locomotives:
. . 1950. . . . . . . . 1960
. . | . . . . . . . . |
7 8 9 | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 |
| . . . . . . |
Diagonal motor . . . . . |
. . . . . . . |
2332 PRR GG1 . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . |
Horizontal motor . . . |
. . . . |
2333PT ATSF, NYC F3 . . |
. 2343PCT ATSF . . . |
. 2344PCT NYC . . . . |
. | . 2345PT WP . . . |
. | . . 2353PT ATSF . |
. | . . 2354PT NYC . |
. | . . 2355PT WP . |
. | . . . 2356PCT SOU |
. | . . . 2245PC MKT |
. | . . . . . . . |
Vertical motor . . . |
Magnetized iron axle |
&nbs
Bob Nelson Blast From The Past: Required Reading And Reference Material [tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]…in view of all the recent posts on noisy drive trains, gears, vertical motor mounting versus horizontal, magnetraction, etc.
Print, memorize, and hang on your wall next to the layout. There will be a pop quiz tomorrow. [:D] And thank you, Bob! This would have taken me two months to type and format, following six months of research.
Jack
Lionel started converting to vertical motors in F3 diesels in the mid 50’s but the gears stayed metallic. Lionel did at one point add a nylon idler gear to the gear tower of the older horizontal drive to reduce some of the noise. The older horizontal drives consisted of more gears thus more noise. The worm drive system contained within the power trucks of early F3’s were not the best design and contributed to much of the noise. The later vertical drive was not only quieter, it was cheaper to manufacture. Lionel did switch to engineering plastic spur gears in the 70’s. The steamers with horizontal motors went basically unchanged throughout the postwar years. They did not have as many gears as the horizontal F3 drive.