Postwar smoke units

What year did lionel switch from smoke pellets to smoke fluid?

The change started in 1957 & was completed by 1970.

Rob

Thanks for the info. Where can I get repro smoke pellets for my 1940’s steamers?

one you can use liquid in a steamer that takes pellets or you can look on ebay as I’m always seeing them for sale . I’m also checking my parts guy to see if he carries them

Jeff kane of the train tender www.ttender.com has bottle of 50 reproduction pellets for $14.95 a bottle you can reach him at

jeff@ttender.com or by calling (585) 229-2050

Pelets melted and turned to liquid. If you want one to smoke better, remove the packing [wadding] and put in pink house insulation. Let the insulation touch the element. Do not block the hole for the air coming from the piston below the upper part of the unit Will probably have a little chimney standing up inside. This is where the air comes through.

Are there any reasons I should go with smoke pellets instead or are they for nostalgic purposes only…btw I have a 1946 berkshire and a 1948 2025. I always hear about how the 46 smoke unit is different than later years. will this be a problem?

Thanks again for the help guys!

Forget which year, but the Berk used the bulb type. If it is the one you have, take it apart and clean it. The pills and etc corroded the heck out of them. Usually will find damage to the metals up front. Do not use the pills or liquid. If you are going to “smoke” it, convert it. Most folks don’t convert them as to leave them as they were manufactured.

I just replaced the heater element in my 2025, but it doesn’t really smoke like it should. I read the tutorial from the site and from the forum, but I didn’t see anything on replacting the sealant (cement) around the top of the smoke unit.

Suggestions?

Thanks,

Kurt

You most likely replaced the 2025 element with the wrong one. A very common mistake. Most parts sellers only carry one PW replacement element. That’s the one for the 671/681/736 worm-geared motors. The trouble is, even though it fits in the regular motored units like your 2025, it doesn’t get hot enough to smoke well. The smaller motors operate on less voltage. You need to find one that is numbered for a 675 or remove some windings off of the element.

No need to worry about the cement not being used. That’s not what is making the unit smoke poorly.

My comment is if you don’t have the bulb type the bulb type it won’t work using liquid to my knowledge. Never had one so keep forgetting about them sorry.

A lot of smoke is an over rated thing in my opinion. I like a visible amount, like what a post war loco or a puffer-type modern unit gives out. But to have a toy train filling up a room with a smoke cloud is a little too much of a good thing for me.

The unit received from Dr. Tinker, was a bit too large for my smoke unit, so I had to cut down the mica frame to fit.

The smoke unit produces smoke ring wisps.

Kurt

I use liquid in my 1946 2020. Use only one drop at a time. Makes a mess if you use anymore than that.

I work right down the street from him. He only stocks the 671/681 smoke element. That’s why your smoke unit isn’t producing more smoke.

Thanks! I wish he would have told me instead of shiping the wrong unit.

Kurt

It’s not the “Wrong” unit. It just isn’t the best one.

I agree with you re smoke, Jim. I’ve always been a bit squeamish about clouds of the stuff in a basement. But I do get nostalgic for a whiff of ozone - go figure. Fortunately, trolleys don’t smoke (or rather shouldn’t).

Personally, I like the more wispy effects - like on the K-Line 2-6-2 I have…

I have a K-Line Pacific that is a decent smoker, but the smoke doesn’t shoot up and out of the stack. It wafts out and stays low near the boiler.

There is a fair amount of complexity in postwar Lionel smoke unit technology. Examples: bulb vs. heating element; heating element resistance (ohms); pellets vs. fluid, large vs. smaller locomotives, etc. One size does not fit all.

One source of useful information can be found by using the “Search” function of this forum. Try using “smoke AND pellet” as keywords. You do not need the quotation marks but be sure to capitalize the logical-operator “AND”. Among other things you can find there are more of the Chief’s thoughts about using pink “attic insulation” for the smoke unit lining or wick, in lieu of the pre-cut commercial yellow ones; and an interesting suggestion from Lionesoni (Bob Nelson) about changing the resistance of the pellet-type heater without having to unwind any coils from the pellet-type element, etc.

Another resource is OGR magazine, Run 184 of January 2002. Check out Volume 1 of Jim Barrett’s tape (and possibly DVD) series called “Barrett in the Backshop.” Specifically, this illustrates a conversion from pellet-type to fluid type but has useful info about both types and is clear and nicely detailed. The OGR Forum has a “Find” function also.

One tip I find helpful: when you remove a “factory original” smoke unit (or one that functioned well in the past in your particular locomotive) measure its electrical resistnce with an ohmmeter and compare it to the proposed replacement. Write down the results and keep them for future reference.

Here is a link to an illustrated article from CTT Magazine:

http://trains.com/ctt/default.aspx?c=a&id=560

Here is link to Lionel Corporation’s Tips and FAQ’s. It gives part numbers but does not speak to the resistance of the heating element: