I am thinking of purchasing a postwar southern AA units. What is a good price to spend on a fairly nice AA units?? My books say about $460 to $750, that is good and excellent price. Where would be the best place to look for them?? I am going to a train show this saturday, and i hope they will have it there. I know ebay is cheaper, but they dont have very many for auction. What should i look for to make sure the AA units are original?? thanks.
On eBay, you should be able to find some fairly nice double A sets in the 400/500 range. At a show, plan on spending double for the same thing.
As far as checking for originallity, lets see (im doing this from work and dont have my guides or units in front of me):
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Nose vents on the shells, always the first thing I look at on PW F3s.
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Horn and battery in the dummy unit.
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Louver tops (never screen)
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Look inside, should be light grey body mold.
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look for uneveness in the yellow rubber stamping of the stripe, name and numbers. silk screened fakes have sharper yellow markings.
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If at a show and you arent certain, seek some one elses advice.
The 2356 Southern F3 AA was introduced in 1954. There were actually several changes to the F3 in 1954. The horn was moved back into the powered unit, NOT the dummy unit. Also, where as before the front pilots were notched in the middle at the bottom, lionel began grinding them smooth across the bottom and you can actually see this if you turn the unit over. Another new feature for 1954 is there is now a new “dimple” right behind the lovers in tip, a small round circle. The bar that was formerly over the front coupler is aslo removed for 1954. If you look closely at the front coupler on the top of it, you can see a small rectangular square embossed on it instead of a circle as was in 1953. There may however, still be a circle as Lionel used up parts. This unit will be a SINGLE motor unit with the motor in the rear position of the powered unit. The horn will be where the front motor was previously. These tips should help you positively ID an original unit set.
Train Rat
The horn was moved back into the powered unit, NOT the dummy unit.
This unit will be a SINGLE motor unit with the motor in the rear position of the powered unit. The horn will be where the front motor was previously.
Both of these statements are wrong. The horn in 1954 two-motor F3s was in the dummy. And all Southern F3s had two motors. (Both of the statements are true of the 2245 Texas Special, however.)
OK, thanks a lot. Ebay seems like a good deal. But, i never seem to win the bids, that why train show is so much easier, but yeah you spend almost double, then again you get to hold it and look it over. thanks.
Not too long ago, there was a good article in CTT that talked about spotting fake southerns, and a few other rare F3s. I’ll have get back to you with the issue number.
As best as I recall, though, it mostly focused on looking at both the stripes and the numbers. Originals had rubber stamped stripes and numbers both, which were never very bright or very sharp. Also, it’s rare for an original to have the stripes meet correctly at the front of the unit. By contrast, a reproduction/repaint will typically be silk screened, and have bright, sharp stripes and numbers.
So, if you find a set that looks a little bit too perfect, chances are it’s a repaint or reproduction shell.
What if the shell has porthole lens that are yellowing, showing their age. I mean they could have swapped them…but if the lettering and numbering are not sharp, then it might be original. Green color a little dirty and used, might indicate original. man, i hate to pay $400 for an AA units that are not original. guess thats why its a risk, everyone trying to make a buck anyway they can. thanks.
It would be best if you did find them with original, yellowed portholes, more original. I dont think a lot of collectors steeply discount the value with replacement porthole lens. myself, i want it original
another thought and it may not apply at the price point you are trying for. The paint on the originals is not glossy, the green when new almost has a frosted look to it. if you find them glossy they more than likely have been treated to some rework with pledge or some other cleaner.
Ok, I went to a train show this morning and they had 1 pair of southern AA units in excellent condition, asking $750. I was like i can get them for for like $450 on ebay. So i passed it up. Man was going by book value of excellent condition, not ebay prices. Man said he just bought it, yeah from ebay for like $400. and turning around and selling it for $750. They gotta adjust values according to ebay, no one is buying at train shows, they just stay home and click. Ebay is no longer having anyone pay by money order, check, or anything like that. Its all paypal now, starting october 20th i think. So if you dont have a paypal account better sign up for one, cause thats all ebay will accept. thanks for the help.
those price guides arent worth the paper they are written on IMHO. E-bay changed that.
yeah, the books should be according to how much they sell for on ebay. Train shows, my my, sell for way too much. All the train shows around here are shutting down cause of ebay and nobody spending at train shows. i dunno…but, i like to going to train shows, but now i observe who is getting ripped off. But, how many people now days know how to work ebay, most of the people with postwar trains are the baby boomers, and some know how to do ebay some dont. thanks.
Dont get me wrong, I too, love train shows. And I dont think Id go as far as saying the sellers at train shows are ripping anyone off. they have a different overhead than say someone who buys and sells from home. there is table rental, travel, room and board, it all adds up. the good thing about dealing with the sellers at the shows are, as you said, you can hold the item in your hand. most of those guys do this regularly and are quite proud of their reputations, especially if they are members of one of the big organizations.
Yeah, you are right! I just hope there is a way to make the hobby more affordable for the younger people, like myself. Because postwar items are going to be hard to find when i am say 50 or 60 years old. Oh well, what can you do. Thanks for the insight. I dont think i will be making it to York, PA train show this year, its because of gas prices and lack of disposible income. I hope after the elections are over, the economy will bounce back and people will buy and sell trains. Thanks.
I don’t know how old you are now Lionel2, but I figure 20 -25 years from now a lot of current collections will be getting liquidated.
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I don’t think it is going to take 20 years. I am 57 and we don’t seem to be lasting as long as our parents and grandparents. Also in my area the news was talking about a epidemic of middle age men’s sucide. Poor health, can’t afford proper medical care, burden on their families who are barely making it themselves are a few of the reasons. This year just in my neighborbood four middle aged men took their lives for the above reasons. Then of my running aound group of eight in high school I am the only one left, and only one of them died in an accident. Besides that I think you are going to see a lot of trains hit ebay at very cheap prices if things do not recover quickly. My grandfather had a fairly good job during the depression in NYC and several antiques in my house come from where he bought things at a next to nothing asking price he did not want just to help people out.
It will be ashame, but when people start losing their retirements cause of the stock crash, and it takes $3000 a year to heat your house with fuel oil, and you can’t afford your heart and sugar pills anymore, many trains will hit the market.
Also I predict a big value drop in the future in post war trains. Around here (Northwest, Georgia) you can’t find any to buy cause everyone still has them in their attic and won’t think of selling them. I would conservatively say at least half the post wars trains out there have never hit the market. And when these people pass on their kids will most likely get rid of them. Then there will be a flood of post war.