Talk about anything you want…
and welcome to the hobby.[#welcome][#welcome][#welcome][#welcome]
we’ll, this is great. is the newbie coffee ready yet - I’ll have an extra large double mocha, no whip topping though, visiting relatives presently, missing the train…they don’t have a decent hobby shop in the area either - so I haven’t had any TRAINing lately. Home soon to do some scratch-building !
cheers,
I think to help out the newbies, we need to tell them the mistakes we made in our layouts and problems we encountered so they then learn. “WE LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES”. A nd I’ll start, do not use #4 turnouts if you plan to run 6 axle locomtives on your mainline.I like Maxwell House with a shot of milk.
Do you know of any good, simplified, well-written resources about wiring your first layout? I’ve looked at a couple by MR publications but they still don’t know how to put things in layman (newbie) terms. The first chapter or two, they make a valiant effort to slow down then…BOOM!..they skip over 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear and move right into overdrive. (I’m starting to develope a bad case of road rash. [:(])
I’m not a coffee drinker but I do like the smell of the stuff. I will take some India chai, if you have any?
And it’s the wise person that can learn from the mistakes of others.
It’s a good post. Might get some additional lurkers to take active interest.
tstage: Is one of your books “how to WIRE your model railroad” by Linn Westcott?
It’s old(1st printing 1950 I have a 5th edition that claims 7th printing in 1966) but has the basics.
It doesn’t know about diodesor transistor throttles, but then, what do you care? [:p]
If you want to go with Atlas controls then their book walks you through. (A disadvantage of the Atlas controls in my experience is that mine have not held up in use for extended periods.) The Atlas controls surface mount to your layout quite nicely.
Hope this helps.
cool i had pretty much the same question
willy6 has a great idea. So many times when you read how to do something (even with several sources) the between the lines is what keeps you from trouble.
Example: Position item A over C and solder.
What is not said: Follow their directions, but watch out. If you don’t temporarily move B to the left you you will blow your house up[:D].
I don’t know how many [oops] I’ve had because I didn’t know what was between the lines. . Book knowledge is a starting point, but the working knowledge of others passed on to the novice is priceless. POUR IT ON, MASTERS or anyone else who has learned the hard way.
Oh yeah, willy6 using #4’s in the wrong place was one of my [#oops].
REX
Got any Folgers? I’ll have mine straight.
**I forgot to add a lesson: If you are using DCC friendly turnouts, not only check them mechanically before installation, but also electrically. I have installed and ballasted some only to find out the jumpers from frog straight rail to frog curved rail was open.[xx(]
Advice from a newbie to newbies: Never try to get everything you want on your first layout.
John,
Currently I’ve been slowly plodding through Easy Model Railroad Wiring SECOND ADDITION by Andy Sperandeo. I just started it. It’s been a couple of weeks since I’ve looked at it so I’ll more than likely start from the beginning again to make sure that I don’t miss anything. It’s been good so far but it still gets thick rather quickly. I think I’ll just have to get used to “plodding”.
I did try the ATLAS wiring book. As I read through it, I had to keep flipping back to earlier sections to re-familiarize myself with things. The challenge is learning the terminology AND the wiring issues at the same time. Sometimes the writers either assume that you know a lot more about the topic or just can’t seem to teach some good, basic concepts of electricity before moving onto the more sophisticated concepts on wiring. (I’m probably just a slow learner.)
Is the How To Wire Your Model Railroad by Linn Westcott book still available or updated? I really do want to LEARN wiring; NOT just know about it. Thanks for your help. [:)]
Tom
Tom,
Take it from a retired electronics/electrical instructor when I say keep it simple. I assume you have no electrical background, but the books you’ve mentioned are still very easy to understand if you keep it simple. I’m not sure if your using DC or DCC, but the basics are very much alike. Don’t worry about turnouts, blocks, signals, and etc… yet.
If you use DCC its even more simple.
Start with nothing more than powering your track. Get a handle on that before anything else. You can still install your turnouts, just wait to power them. Powering your track is like your car where you have to make sure Positive goes to one side and Negative to the other and not get them crossed. This is true with both DC (neg/pos) and DCC (a/b).
Once you have accomplished the power then study the ways you can control your turnouts or reverse loops or whatever. The point is that it can easily be overwhelming if you jump ahead to fast. You can always install connections and controls later. I have been the electronic/elecrical field for over 40 years, but I still take it slow and easy.
I hope this helps you a little.[:)]
REX
I have the second edition of Andy’s book also. Wiring is the biggest challenge for me at this point so I’m reading the book, asking local club members, and noting their thoughts as well as opinions on the forum. I’m planning for an Easy DCC system and need to save up for that - some of the other club members have switched to it in recent years and are familiar with it (I am not, yet) … while I save up, there’s benchwork to finish…
as far as the wiring goes though: I’d like to do basic wiring in black and white, then designated various wires colours to turnouts, accessories etc. I’d like to know what gauge of wire others have used and for what purpose?
is 16 gauge appropriate? 14 gauge or 12? or am I way out - I need to have another look at Andy’s book though.
a coffee and a read, that’ll do it.
wiring can be a real discouragement (for me), so I’m getting ready for the challenge
cheers
I’m a Newbie!! I’ve started an HO layout, not used any plans, have been careful with my turns, but is 15" radius turns too tight? The loco (8 wheel drive unknowen brand) runs ok .
Ken: Welcome. 15" radius in HO is tight to impossible, depending on what you are going to run. 18" is the “standard” minimum. That makes a complete circle 36 inches, and that’s quite a lot of territory on a small layout space. That’s why the temptation to reduce the radius. However, if you do go for 15 inches, even if the locos can make it round, and the cars aren’t too long, (eg passenger cars, auto racks, stuff like that) they will LOOK wierd as they hang over the tracks in the curves, and gap widely looked at from the outside of the curve.
All that said, it’s your road, and you can build what suits you. The main thing is to have fun[:D]
Good luck with this
Again welcome Ken to a great hobby. I used 15" radius on first layout.It was to tight and I was limited to certain locomotives. That was one of my reasons for building a second layout. I donated my first to my Father-in-law.
Since you are considering DCC, Digitrax, “Big Book on DCC” is an excellent source of information. It gives a very good discription of DCC, shows the differences between DC and DCC, and how to’s for installation.
To answer your question on gauge (I assume you are talking about power bus that supplies the juice to track feeders. ) it depends on the max. total locos you will have running at the same time and their current draw, plus any lighting, controls, etc…thats coming off it and how long your bus length will be.
I used 12 guage on the underside of my layout from one end to the other. I tapped off it every 6 feet with the wire thats on the atlas wired track joiners. I think that they are 22 guage. I use 12 gauge for the bus mostly because of the length of the wire. Besides, what I need today may not be enough later on and the price isn’t that much different. I believe most on the forum have said they use 14 or 12.
From"Big Book of DCC" page 42
The Table for 0-5 amps.
0 - 30’ 18 gauge
30’ - 50’ 14 gauge
50’ - 100’ 12 gauge
The Table for 5-8 amps.
0’ - 30’ 16 gauge
30’ - 50’ 12 gauge
50’ - 100’ 12 gauge
REX
I agree with Rex’s advice about keeping the wiring simple to begin with - build your layout wiring up over time, and keep it neat - one useful trick I’ve found is to use self-adhesive copper tape stuck to the underside of the board instead of long pieces of wire (this would probably work very well for DCC power buses too, though I’ve not tried it). This stuff needs no clips, staples, etc to stay under control, and you can just solder wires to it to make any connections rather than having to strip insulation to attach feeders. Just remember to use some insulating tape where one feed crosses another to prevent shorting, and avoid placing it where it can contact anything under the layout (above rather than below cross-braces if possible, though this is probably easier to build in while at the benchwork stage. Gaffa or Duct Tape should work as a hard-wearing insulator if you have to go round or under any framing that might come into contact with something likely to cause a short). The advantage of this approach is that you’re less likely to have an unexplained problem (assuming you use the layout on a regular basis), and if you do, fault finding is easier when faced with clear, ordered wiring.
Could someone please pass the sugar?
BC
heres the sugar
Thanks Chaps
The only 15" turn is going to be hidden so mayby I’ll get away with it. The rest I can relay as Im still laying and testing as I go. Can anybody show me details on a removable section (for access to the middle).
Thanks Ken