I’m ready to start building a new layout after a move of house. I won’t name brands but I ended up being completely dissatisfied with my previous brand of turnout and want to use something else. I’m impressed by the Pecos and I have heard from many that they are the gold standard in mass-produced turnouts when it comes to both reliability of the turnout itself, and prevention of derailments (and I know, nothing is perfect, there will still be derailments but I’ve got to reduce them if I’m going to have real fun).
Peco as a company unfortunately has a lousy web site and completely inadequate information. Does one have to remove the spring in order to power the turnout? If so, defeats a key feature of the turnout, doesn’t it? If not, how good are the Peco switch machines - they sure don’t look like much, look like a product from the 30’s. What other good-quality twin-coil switch motors are available? Even though I don’t know how good it is the Rix one seems to be out of production. The NJI I have used in the past and consider unsatisfactory, and it also appears to be out of production. Are there any other under-table options for twin coil?
Am I right that there is no real point in using Peco with slow-motion switch motors?
If a Peco turnout is used in a location where you can reach it to throw by hand, there’s no need for a motor on it.
I have never used a Peco switch motor but understand that they must be attached directly to the bottom of the turnout in order to work properly.
By removing the Peco’s built-in throwbar spring they can very easily be used with a Tortoise slow motion switch motor. Some people will tell you that you can use them with a Tortoise without removing the Peco spring, but the turnout will then tend to snap into position, which kinda negates the purpose of having a slow motion motor.
The best source of Peco turnout in the U.S. that I have found is Cherry Creek Hobbies in Torrington, Wyoming.
The Peco turnouts, as you’ve noted, do have a spring which holds the points against the stock rails. This does make them very solid and reliable, and may reduce the possibility of derailments, too. However, the spring won’t help imperfect trackwork, so it’s not going to compensate for kinks, or for out-of-spec wheel gauge, for example.
The Peco switch machines are designed to attach directly to the underside of the turnout. They work with the spring installed. In fact, they will not work well if you remove the spring, because these switch machines don’t have any other way to hold the points to the rails. Note that the power required to throw a Peco machine and the spring-loaded points is greater than what you would need for an Atlas machine, for example. A capacitive discharge (CD) circuit is highly recommended, and may be required in some installations. Of course, a CD circuit is a good idea for twin-coil switch machines in general.
I have half a dozen Peco turnouts on my layout, all powered by Peco machines. They are rock-solid and very reliable. I use 2-inch foam as my layout base, so I cut a big hole below the points to mount the switch machines in. I put a piece of cardboard between the switch machine and the underside of the turnout to cover the hole and protect the machine while ballasting.
If you remove the spring, you can use a Tortoise, but it won’t work with the spring in place. The spring must be removed before installing the turnout, incidentally.
I also agree that Cherry Creek Hobbies is a great source for Peco turnouts, track & Peco accessories… Of the more than 60 turnouts I have ordered from him C100 & C75 he has never had to backorder one. His discount is about 30% or slightly higher. Will also carries other brands of track.
i have about 50 peco code 100’s on my layout and find them to be equal if not superior to the pre- walthers shinohara switches that make up the rest of the trackwork.
all mine are hand thrown since i use walk around style operation. only glitch with the peco’s is a slightly wide flangeway between the running rails and guard rails of the frog. this is easily corrected by laminating about .010" of styrene strip to the guard rail and making sure all my equipment has the wheels adjusted just slightly on the tight side of the nmra standard. otherwise, wheel flanges will pick the point of the frog when shoving through the diverting route side of the switch. a five minute fix.
one other thing worth checking is some of the plastic in the frog area (mine are all insulfrog) can be slightly higher than the rail and this can cause short wheel base engines like 0-6-0’s to loose electrical contact long enough to get a stumble in their operation. a flat file or an emory board type finger nail file will make quick work of this problem.
i have no need for power operated switches but from past experience, i would stay away from anything other than a slow motion device. the little over-center spring of the peco’s doesn’t slam the points shut with enough force to hurt anything but there was a time in this hobby when snap acting switch machines were all the rage and the more powerful, the better was the general thinking. all that snapping back and forth destroyed a lot of switches in short order. it was like slamming the door on a Ford every time you threw a switch. guys even developed capacitor discharge circuits to get more smack out of the coils. an O scale club i worked with abandoned that type of switch control early on after a bunch of their code 178 point sets came unsoldered from all the heavy switch machine action.
one final thought. even though i have no plans to power any of my switch throws at thi
Cacole, thanks for the response. I prefer powered turnouts for the following reasons:
I’d say about a third of my turnouts are out of reach for normal operating - due to buildings, trees, etc. rather than distance.
I’ve seen too much collateral damage with handthrown turnouts that are not immediately next to the outside fascia board. Especially signals, telephone / telegraph posts, and trees.
The caboose ground throws are, in my opinion, as ugly as sin and do much to destroy the illusion - apologies to all those who disagree. The few more realistic operating hand ground throws are expensive, questionable reliability, look fiddly to install. Unitrack and profitrack do have concealed hand throws.
Signals are hilariously inappropriate for the jerkwater prototype that I model. So I like to have LED indication on a panel. I know people use push rods with slide switches and I have not completely rejected that approach.
BTW I have used capacitance discharge ever since I burned up my first Atlas switch machine 46 years ago, but your suggestion is wise. The Peco people themselves also strongly recommend it and I note that they market one (I made my own; I now have two but the original still works great).
I also take your point about trackwork. Believe me, the problem with the prior brand was not the other trackwork. Too often, locos especially but also some rolling stock would derail at the points when the switch was set to the diverging route. Other problems too.
Thanks in particular for your comments based on actual usage.
I, too plan to use foam although in most places a foam-on-plywood sandwich. Sounds like I could use a very thin piece of styrene, say .01 inch thick, painted grey, to cover the hole and protect the switch machine. Do you think this plan would work?
Please look at my first reply to see my reasons for not throwing by hand. Each to their own on that.
Thank you for the heads-ups. I’ve read on other threads about these, too. I would use electrofrogs and my understanding is that they do not have the raised-bottom-channel that some of the insulfrogs have. I’m not aware of any currently available code 100 turnouts that do NOT have too wide a flangeway. I’ve had to make the same fix that you discuss on all my previous turnouts.(BTW, Ironically, I found that this modification reduced their value when I sold them …).
The slow motion switches aren’t perfect, either. I used them on my previous layout and my experience was that over time, their constant force separated the point rails from the underlying copper bar to which they were soldered by the manufacturer.
With all respect regarding your dislike of the high prices for slow motion motors, I think you’d be hard put to find a long-lasting motor that would be any cheaper after all your modifications - gears, motion limits, etc. It would also be noisier and lastly there is the question of the value you place on your time. Myself, I’ll pay $10 more any day for something that gives me another hour to make real progress on the layout.
That should work fine. I go out and buy a 30-pack of beer in cans, and drink the top 15 cans. That reveals a piece of plasticized cardboard, which is perfect for protecting the switch motor. It also makes a good cheap palate for craft paints.
Peco makes an add-on gadget which is a single-pole, double-throw toggle driven by the switch machine. This is a handy way to control a panel LED indicating the direction of the turnout. You mentioned that you were interested in panel indicators, so that might be of some use to you, too.
Thanks for the additional information. In this day and age it is really ridiculous that the company doesn’t list its products on the website, or have much of any other useful information there.
Past experience makes me a bit leery of these mechanical micro-switches. If they clamp onto the Peco motor that should solve the usual alignment problems, but they still tend to wear out with repeated use. I should probably buy one and test it.
I’ve been using the Pecos for 20+ years with the switch machine. I’ve had zero trouble with the machines or the points from “slamming” back and forth. About the only issue I’ve had with over 65 Pecos on the layout is 2 that lost their springs (easily replaced) and 2 where the spring became dislodged from it’s notch on the throw bar (a 30 second fix). I did have to add the 0.010 strip to about a half dozen of the turnouts. Otherwise pretty much trouble free for all this time. I do use a capacitance discharge unit.
The turnouts have slots in the ties, and the machines have corresponding metal tabs which fit into the slots. The throw rod on the machine goes into a hole in the throw bar of the turnout. It’s all pretty simple. Once it’s assembled, bend the tabs over and the machine will be solidly mounted to the turnout.
Wire and test the switch machine before you mount it. Also, if you’re going to use cardboard or plastic to cover the opening, that should be mounted as you attach the machine. Make sure you’ve got enough room so that any stray wood or foam won’t interfere with the throwing of the mechanism.
If you get the accessory attachment for lights, it mounts to the underside of the switch machine. I would wire and assemble that at the same time, although it’s possible to install from below if necessary.
Thank you for your additional comments and description, Mr. Beasley. Good point particularly on testing the machine before mounting. Specific question for you: are the mounting tabs long enough to accommodate the additional .015 inches / 0.38mm of the plastic plate that I plan to add?
Regarding the optional switch attachment, I’m leery of mechanical switches. Although its a little more expensive, I’m inclined to go with a solid-state electronic solution for the panel LEDs and frog power-routing.
The tabs are long enough to accomodate a thin piece of styrene.
The frogs, incidentally, are plastic. Peco makes both Electrofrog turnouts, which are power-routing, and Insulfrog turnouts which are not power-routing.
OK I’ll go out on a limb here and say that I consider pecos to be great for hidden trackwork in Code 100 and not so great for visible in code 83…
I have a dozen or so code 100’s in my hidden staging using both manual and Peco motors. I have shimmed a couple to Male them more derailment free (more about certain rolling stock than the turnout) but in general have found them to be very reliable. The motors do do snap, but not a slam, so I anticipate many more years from them.
One note on the motors: They can be installed from the side or underneath. Care must be taken with underneath mounting as it leaves the throw bar floating and it is easy to pull the points off the bar by accidentally pushing down on the bar (they are press fit with metal tabs). all of my Pecos are electro frogs.
The code 83 I am not as fond of due to the still European look of their supposedly US prototype. To my eye, the ties are still too heavy on the head stock and the rest of the details are a bit heavy. I have also found that the stamped point rails are too flimsy on the two turnouts that I purchased. My large steam makes an audible thump when traversing the code 83 switches as it moves from the solid closure rail to the point and flexes the point I like other brands for visible in code 83. (for reference sake - I have in code 83, on the layout, the following brands -Micro Engineering, Darr, Railway Engineering, Bk Enterprises Scratch built, Walthers/Shinohara, Peco, Litco/fast tracks) I know that others love the Peco code 83 - I’m not feeling it - Just my opinion and experiences.
Probably if I had it to do over again at this point I would go with fast tracks - they weren’t around when I started construction.
.On the Peco - My advice - buy one and see what you think.
Lots of good info here. FWIW, I emerged triumphant but beforehand had a running gun battle with under-the-table mounting of a Peco points motor. If you search the Community for fkrall posts on “Peco” you’ll no doubt be captivated by the saga while enjoying your beer per Mr. Beasley’s post.
Here’s my points motor mounted and wired. I learned that alignment with the turnout, always important, is particularly critical with the Peco–it binds easily. I, too, use a CD, although you can’t see it in this image.
If you do mount under the table, by all means replace the Peco slotted screws with Phillips-heads. Clearances are minimal and it makes installation much easier.
