I’ve got a problem on my hands that I would like to run the group here for some constructive advice on how to deal with. Last year I was in search of someone who would be willing to do some custom painting of 3 GP-9’s for my collection. After a lengthy search, I can upon a web site of a gentleman who does some nice custom work. He is also located in the local area of the railroad that I wanted these 3 GP-9’s painted. I contacted him and we had several conversations about details, prices, and expectations. In June of last year, I purchased 3 Proto 2000 GP-9’s and mailed them, along with a check for $225.00 to cover the agreed upon costs of the custom paint job. The check cleared my bank on 15 June 2006. The custom painter and I agreed upon a completion date of approximately 60 days after he received the engines and money. That would put the completion around mid to late August 2006.
Here we are now in January of 2007 and I have yet to receive these engines. I have spoken with the painter numerous times over the past 6 months and have received verbal updates as to the progress of the project. Although being behind our agreed schedule, everything seemed to be fine up until December. I have tried to contact the painter about a dozen times by phone and email in December. All I ever seem to get is his voice mail, and no response to my emails.
I am being deliberately vague on the identity of this gentleman because I don’t want to get into a mud slinging contest. I know that this is a business to him. His Custom Painting web site is still up and running.
I have kept all of our Email from the past 7 months indicating our agreement; costs associated, and expected time schedules. I would normally just drive down to his shop and talk to him face to face, but I am in the military and stationed about 600 miles away from where he is.
What would you guys suggest I do next? I was planning on sending him a letter in the mail and having it “return receipt requested” so that
If the details are as you relate them, you can be confident that no business person of any repute or character deals with his/her customers in that manner. You have every recourse to hire a lawyer, or to simply file a claim in civil court for your costs. If the jurisdiction allows punitive damages in such cases, add them to your action, and proceed.
What would you do if a car dealership promised you your custom painted, leathered, super-engined car delivered in 60 days, and six months later they stopped returning your phone call…oh, and they took a $10K deposit?
I think your proposed next step of the registered letter is a good one. If he refuses to accept it then your next step would be clear, and his refusal to accept the letter would support you, probably.
I would be as diplomatic as possible in the letter, and spell out exactly what you want to happen (return of the money and the locos, a firm completion date for the work, or whatever). I would also give a reply timeframe so he HAS to get back to you, maybe something like “I hope to hear from you by” X date, “to ensure that whatever misunderstanding may exist does not develop into an even more difficult situation.” Or whatever.
I can understand your reluctance to name the individual. However, it seems to me that it is also important to make others aware of this gentleman’s business practices. Six months seems to be an awful long delay in any meaningful progress. Especially with your having had numerous conversations with him. If he is ill, or has other legitimate problems, he has a responsibility to tell you.
As I am thinking of having some custom work done, I hope you will keep us informed as to the resolution of your project, or lack of such. I know I would appreciate it. At this point, I don’t think I would interested be interested in his services.
I agree with you sending a registered letter and giving him time to respond.If he fails to respond then I see no other course then to contact your attorney for legal action.
This is a good first step but I would word the expectations very clearly, with defined dates etc. Such as “I expect a reply no later than xxxx date”. This will make your case that much stronger if you have to take the next step. Leaving it vague and open ended (I hope to hear from you by…) gives the business something to hang onto at your expense.
As a consultant who has to deal with a variety of clients re payment I have found I get better results by being very clear in dates and expectations otherwise they will use any excuse to delay (oh, you did not say you wanted to be paid by xxx date, you just “hoped”. We were going to pay you eventually).
I am writing this letter in the concern of the three Proto 2000 GP-9’s I mailed to you for custom painting on July-__-2006. I have already paid you in full for this project, which was expected to be completed months ago, but as yet has not been delivered. I do not wish to have a conflict, but as you have cut the lines of comunication between us, I feel compelled to ask for a legal resolution of this case.
I am sorry, but I must demand that either 1: The service for which you have been contracted for be fully rendered by --2007, or 2: The locomotives I have sent to you to be repainted shall be returned to me by __ -__-2007 with a refund of the cost of your services not rendered, or 3: A full refund of the total charge of your services be made with payment for the full cost of the three locomotives be given in 30 days time.
If the above requirements are not met, I will be compelled to engage my attorny in legal action to recover the property and money due to me.
Signed:
(Your name)
I hope you can get this resolved quickly and fairly. Business politics shouldn’t get in the way of a wonderfull hobby!
Matthew Imbrogno
-Mechanical Vollenteer, Arizona Railway Museum www.azrymuseum.org
I’ve got a problem on my hands that I would like to run the group here for some constructive advice on how to deal with. Last year I was in search of someone who would be willing to do some custom painting of 3 GP-9’s for my collection. After a lengthy search, I can upon a web site of a gentleman who does some nice custom work. He is also located in the local area of the railroad that I wanted these 3 GP-9’s painted. I contacted him and we had several conversations about details, prices, and expectations. In June of last year, I purchased 3 Proto 2000 GP-9’s and mailed them, along with a check for $225.00 to cover the agreed upon costs of the custom paint job. The check cleared my bank on 15 June 2006. The custom painter and I agreed upon a completion date of approximately 60 days after he received the engines and money. That would put the completion around mid to late August 2006.
Here we are now in January of 2007 and I have yet to receive these engines. I have spoken with the painter numerous times over the past 6 months and have received verbal updates as to the progress of the project. Although being behind our agreed schedule, everything seemed to be fine up until December. I have tried to contact the painter about a dozen times by phone and email in December. All I ever seem to get is his voice mail, and no response to my emails.
I am being deliberately vague on the identity of this gentleman because I don’t want to get into a mud slinging contest. I know that this is a business to him. His Custom Painting web site is still up and running.
I have kept all of our Email from the past 7 months indicating our agreement; costs associated, and expected time schedules. I would normally just drive down to his shop and talk to him face to face, but I am in the military and stationed about 600 miles away from where he is.
What would you guys suggest I do next? I was planning on sending him a letter in the mail and having it "return receipt r
The ideal solution, if both of you knew mutually well-regarded modellers, would be to ask an intervenor to inquire on your behalf. Just the inquiry from a colleague/friend/ops session buddy about “this guy” wondering what happened to his money and locomotives might induce a prompter resolution. This keeps the process low key, but you in the pressure chair.
FWIW, I stand by my earlier suggestion of litigation. Aside from his demise, which has not yet been made known to you, there is no excuse for his conduct. He is quite clearly not going to do as he agreed, or at least, not any time in the next three or four months. So, he is in breach, and he is liable. I am quite confident that you will not get any results unless you use a stick of some kind, whether through the post office, a good suggestion, or through the courts.
Now he has your money AND the engine. Charlatans, (look up the word) as well as naive people exist in this world.
BEST SUGGESTION is to request in writing RETURN of both money and engine, as he breached the contracted agreement - an send a copy to WHOEVER / wherever you aquired his name from.
Negative publicity is about all you have going for you. Threats will get you nowhere.
UNFORTUNATELY there’s little you can really do except show up at his residence with a local Sheriff demanding your property back. and that won’t include the check. I can virtually guarantee your money has been spent and your locomotive has not been painted (Where’s the incentive?).
District attorney’s won’t pursue anything under a certain amount (was $500 50 years ago. What’s today?), and going to court means going there, and all you can get is a ‘Judgement’ (no cash) to further pursue your claim. Collectiing money costs money.
I’VE HAD 6 different incidents where painters either left town with my engines or kept them over a year without ever painting them. 3 were sub contracting for dealers, one exhibited at a train show, and 2 were advertisers in MR. Note: 5 engines were never returned (stolen).
It’s like doing business on Ebay, Reputation is everything - and really about ALL you have going for you. If you got his name from a referral, COPY that referral. If in an ad, COPY that publication. Web sites? I don’t know.
THREAT’s, like PROMISES won’t work, because they’re empty. The law doesn’t protect you from giving money away.
(2) $225 for custom painting 3 engines is a bargain - probably why you went there. Most will charge you $125 - $150 per - but you’ll get your engines back.
I’m not sure if $225 to paint 3 engines is market value or not. If it is on the low side, you may be low on his priority list to get the job done. That’s no excues for him but he may have higher paying jobs he is putting ahead of yours.
The letter is a good idea but just have him send back the engines and find someone else to paint them. So you’re out $225; it’s not worth all the time and hasel for small claims court, etc.
Another tactic would be to threaten to name him on this forum. Unless he lives under a bridge, he will know that would be a serious blow to his custom painting business.
If you used the US POstal Service to send them to him he should be guilty of mail fraud which they can pursue on your behalf rather than the cost of a lawyer.
I’d like to say Thanks to everyone who posted a response here to my problem with this custom painter. You’ve all given me some great idea’s here. I will first try the certified letter approach first and see what happens. I’d like to, if at all possible, keep this from getting Ugly.
I used to custom paint many moons ago, and I can tell you two things:
this painter is lazy as hell for being way over due(A), and he is scum for cashing your check before ever loading his airbrush(B).
You simply haven’t been assertive with him.
Give this slug until the end of this month to either send your finished engines, or a full refund and equipment back. No threats, just a demand, and don’t be wishy-washy about it.
Just curious, what paint scheme were you asking for?
I have been fortunate in this respect but can second what Gwedd says. I know of one case where a seller who seemed to have dropped off the face of the Earth for a few months suddenly found the time to contact the buyer and get things resolved just one day after a visit from the Postal Inspection Service. . .
This is one of the reasons that I don’t pay for things like this in advance. I’ll make, at the most, a small down payment with it made clear that the rest will be paid if the project is finished WITHIN THE ALLOTED TIME. If not, he doesn’t get the rest of the money and the property must be returned or legal action will ensue. I haven’t had any problems with being stiffed on things like this again.