I’ve been painting and decaling locos and rolling stock for almost 20 yrs. and have never been sucessful at airbrushing the gloss coat. It always turns out grainy. Once in frustration I just loaded up the model with clear gloss. The grainyness went away, but so did the details. My airbrush skills are very good using color so there must be something else I’m doing wrong. I’ve had so much bad luck at it that most of the lime I decal on flat paint, having it randomlly lift off the model, increesing time and dirving me nuts. (this supposed to be fun)? I have used model master, poly s, model flex, and microscale. I could use your advise on air pressue, thinning, distance from model, and anything else you care to pass along. Thanks, Alan
i’ve not done any serious painting in years and then i only used floquil, solvent based paints, so this may or may not help you.
i had my best luck by mixing in 20-40% clear gloss with the base color first and then applying dulcote over the decals. can you try that with acrylics?
grizlump
It is a good thought and certainly better than trying to find railroad colors in gloss. I use all water base paint so I’ll give it a practice try and seeif it works as well as solvant based. Thanks
please let us know what you find out. i may be forced to resort to acrylics in the future if the enviromentalists have their way. i don’t really have anything against using water based paints other that starting the learning curve all over again. it took me a long time just to get to an acceptable level of success with solvent based paints.
grizlump (slow learner)
Alan - It sounds to me as if you are consistently holding the airbrush a bit too far from the model when applying the gloss coat. Gloss coatings have a tendency to dry (in the air on the way to the model) faster than typical color paints do. Having airbrushed models for several decades now, I have only encountered graininess when applying gloss coat when the outside air was extremely dry to begin with and I held the airbrush just a bit too far from the model. Also, are you adding in about 10%-15% thinner to the gloss coat and do you check your models carefully during application to see that the coating is actually going on “wet”? The surface should appear distinctly “wet” and shiny at all times, not dull.
The one other possibility, although seemingly unlikely from your description of the problem occurring with various brands of coatings, is that the gloss is out of date. Old gloss has a tendency to crystallize to a degree, sometimes producing long filmy strings and a granular surface.
CNJ831
I have NEVER had good luck with gloss clear coats! It seems in order to get a smooth finish, you always have to apply TOO MUCH. Being in the custom motorcycle business, it is the same case with clear-coated paint. You have to lay on a good heavy coat of clear, or else the finish will be rough. You can watch the automotive clear go on rough until the correct “thickness” occurs, then it “smoothes-out” just like glass! I always try to spray my models with GLOSS color before decaling, and then airbrush with Dullcoat (lightly). I often wish that undecorated locos and rolling stocl would come in gloss finish, as it is so much easier to paint dull over gloss, than the other way around!
An article on using Future Floor Wax:
http://www.ndrr.com/rmr_faq/Models/Future-Floor-Wax.htm
HTH,
Tom
You might want to consider using (or experimenting with) Future floor wax. The armor and aircraft modelers seem to like the stuff, and the only negative about it I’ve heard so far is that it takes longer to dry than the products we’re used to using. Here are two links. The first is to a Fine Scale Modeler forum: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/75072.aspx. The second discusses thinning, application, and clean-up: http://www.ndrr.com/rmr_faq/Models/Future-Floor-Wax.htm.
I used it one time and was happy with the results.
And you are not alone with having application problems with the clear finish problems.
Regards
When it comes to gloss coating I’ve had the same trouble airbrushing the stuff onto a freshly painted engine, namely clotting and grainyness. Consequently I’ve learned to use Testor’s Glosscote straight out of the spraycan. That works pretty well but for my last two projects I was caught short when my Glosscote can expired. There’s no LHS handy to me but there is a Michael’s craft store. After searching it’s shelves I cam across Patricia Nimrocks clear acrylic sealer, gloss ( don’t laugh! ). The ladies use it for decoupage and suchlike. It sprayed nice and even, gives a hard bright finish and when dried accepts decals wonderfully. It’s compatable with Floquil solvent based paints and I’m sure it works with water based material. It wasn’t the only acrylic sealer the store had, just the one I chose after reading the labels.
This is a trick I have used on some of my units; try wet sanding the flat colors with real fine (1200 +) or a fine buffing compound. The grain is actually coming from the color coat, & the clear is trying to fill it in. If you could magnify it, it would look like a shallow rocky stream bed with little water. I’ve found that if I am careful enough I can sand/buff/polish decal areas, then hit everything with clear, decal, then dull coat. A second method is to add 50% clear into your final color coat to to act as a filler in the grainy flat texture of the paint. (it will look semi gloss when dry). This also helps even out any color depth variation that may happen with spot buffing. Try this on some scrap & you will see the difference. If I am making a a real nice model, (aka: have the patience) both of these will work together to make a stellar paint job. Also, it may sound like a lot of paint, but use light coats & it will still be less paint than flooding a clear coat & filling details.
Hope this may be a couple helpful options.
FUTURE
Harold
Future…straight from the bottle. Also very good at holding ballast in place…
David B
I’m no pro, and have had my share of decal disasters, but I’ve had a decent run recently with Gloss from a spraycan.
Griz: Given the choice, I’d rather the acrylics for 90% of the stuff I do, only because it’s easier to undo. Or, I’ll do a basecoat in enamel and the top coats in acrylic, cause I can clean up any extra without taking up the entire model. (For example, for Monon, the black or grey base and then the gold or red in acrylic)
I spray anywhere from 4 to 8 inches from the model, debending on the size of the area I’m covering at that moment. As for thinning, I thin light and spray on some scrap material until I get a good spray pattern. The wet look is there momentarily unless I apply a heavy coat. Some of the gloss is old because I dont use it. I thought of that so about a year ago I bought some “fresh” gloss from the local hobby shop and got simmilar results. Also, I strain EVERYTHING as it goes into the color cup through a very fine stainless steal pipe screen. Thanks, Alan
Is the Patricia Nimrock product in a can or a spray? I have a Michaels just up the road from me.
That sounds like a good idea. I spray light and thin to cover but not collect on rivets and other detals so although it looks smooth at normal viewing, I might be putting down a grainy surface. I have some sanding film and if I have to strip the locos I did Saturday, I’ll give that a try. Thanks, Alan
Future seemed to be a popular fix /choice to the problem. I would be concerned about yellowing as it does yellow slightly when used. The drying time would not be a problem since I have patience and plently of other things to work on while I wait.
Future has worked VERY well for me. As mentioned previously, I use it straight from the bottle, and it is really cheap. It dries fairly quickly, and I have not had a problem with yellowing as of yet.
Gloss/Flat clear coats should be thinned to about the consistency of 2% milk. This is true of most any color whether it is solvent or water based. The water based acrylics do have a tendency to ‘dry’ within 12" of leaving the tip. Spray it with 18-24 lbs of pressure, and about 5-8" from the model. Higher pressure will result in it ‘drying’ long before it touches the model(that rough graininess).
I was told by an ‘expert’ that I needed high pressure to spray acrylic paints(35 lbs). This just made matters worse and the only paints I could get to spray reliably were standard Floquil and Pollyscale. I had nothing but trouble with Badger colors. I went to a clinic at the NMRA National and had live demo’s and answered a lot of questions. When I came home I grabbed my old Badger 200 and did some testing with Pollyscale/Modelflex/Tamiya paints. After thinning the paints if needed, annd setting my air pressure to about 22 lbs - I fould I could spray everything with no problems. I even painted a Athearm boxcar and oversprayed it with a gloss coat - perfect for decal work. After about 40 years of using an air brush, I finally have a reliable process to follow. Most of the time I have had very good results, but every once in a while I will have a problem. Not all paints in the same paint line are mixed to the same consistancy. Floquil colors vary all over - some are ‘air brush’ ready, others need to be thinned down. Tamiya seems to be very consistant, and Modelflex appears to be the same. The folks at Badger mentioned that my old Model 200 may spray acrylics better with the heavy needle/tip, but I have had no issues with the medium needle/tip. I had already bought the ‘notched’ regulator for my Badger 200 about 5 years ago. That resolved Pollyscale clogging issues on the tip(the real reason was the super high pressure I was using). Not too
Jim, Some good tips there. I’m beginning to see the error of my ways with clear gloss. I’ve recieved many useful tips helping me to form a better plan of attack when spraying gloss. When the decals I just applyed to my latest clear gloss attempt have set, I’ll consider starting over if the flat clear doesent hide things enough. Thanks, Alan