Problems of a teenaged railfan

Trains Magazine General Discussion
21

[:)]

The mention of flashbulbs above stirred a memory. My father took me to Salem, MA, one night (around 1952) to watch some yard action. After I had taken a few pics with flashbulbs a breathless RR worker ran up to me and said, “Oh, thank God.” He had thought something on one of the cars was fouling the power lines overhead. I said, “Sorry.” He said, “I hope the pictures come out. See you.” He exchanged a few what I thought were pleasantries with my father and walked back to work.

I don’t know how far he ran, but he was really out of breath. I always felt guilty about scaring him that much.

[:)] [:)]

22

Wow why do you need a SUV (kind of ironic haveing a overpriced and costely POS and haveing a screen name with “P42” in it LOL) you could always sell your SUV and get a car with better MPG.

23

Actually I worked for 2 years for the railroad, and also have my engineers card. I know all about train crews and where you are trespassing on RR property. The 50 feet does play a whole big part in the safety factor. You are correct. There are some portions like roads that the rail roads on that have signs posted. I agree that some officers should go bullistick. There is one railfan that I have seen in Peoria that was maybe 15 feet from the tracks. If I was an officer of the law I would have went bolistic. He would have been in the back of the car in just a matter of seconds. Some think that nothing will happen so they can get the perfect photo. 9 times out of 10 they are correct, but then you have that one time when a car just rolls over. Railroad employees are federal employees. This is why if a train hits and kills someone the train crew does not have to obide by what the police officer says. He will ask for a drivers license and the train crew is not supost to give it to them at all. They can see the enginners card, but that is it. Yes, you are correct that the trespassing is a sticky situation. But 50 feet from the center of the track in either direction is railroad property. Railroad officals have identifaction that states there position with the railroad. If they ask you to go with them , then ask for the ID. If they cant produce it, then you are right you dont know why they really are.

24

Who signs your paycheck? The Secretary of the Treasury of the United States, or the Treasurer of your Railroad? If it is the former, then you are a Federal Employee, if it is the latter then you are a Railroad Employee. A matter of semantics, maybe, but Railroad Employees are NOT “Federal Employees”. An Employee is someone that is “employed” BY an organization and a RAILROAD employee is employed by the RAILROAD, not the Federal Government or any federal organization. Railroads are “Corporations” that are incorporated in a State. But because they perform “interstate commerce”, they are governed by Federal Laws, but that does not make their employees to be “Federal Employees”.

If a Police Officer asks a railroad employee for his/her “Driver’s License”, it is to establish “identification” using an accepted form of identification used by the State in which they are in. It is not to see if he can drive a car… it is to establish WHO the railroad employee is. The Police Officer’s request should be phrased as: “Show me some photo identification, please?” If the employee has a Railroad issued PHOTO identification, then that “should” suffice. But the employee should follow the particular RR’s directives as to what should or should not be produced per the Police Officer’s request.

The reasons an Officer would ask for identification are varied, but are usually the result of the Officer performing the duty assigned by the community; be that community is: Town, City, County/Parrish, State, or YES, even the Federal community as a whole. All the ordinances and laws of those communities are the Police Officers duty in an order where the larger community takes precedence over the smaller one, no matter which community “employs” the Officer. The Officer has paper work to fill o

25

Sempor,

Please show me what part of the Federal or your State’s Constitution requires you to carry a photographic id, or a drivers license.

The US Supreme court was quite clear in its ruling towards the requirements of identification.

Nothing in the Federal Constitution requires any US citizen to carry any form of photographic id.

A drivers license is nothing more that a permit, issued by your state, that allows you to operate a motorized vehicle on that states public roads.

The fact that it has become a de-facto form of photographic ID is not law.

Now, certain types of and places of employment, such as government offices/ agencies and law enforcement jobs do require a person to carry a employee id, (a government/employer issued badge, ID card, uniform, things like that) but all “the law” requires of the everyday citizen to that, when questioned by a law enforcement officer, they must identify themselves in a truthful manner…in other words, all you have to do is tell the officer your correct name, and offer enough details, such as an address, that the officer can establish that you are who you say you are…the burden of proof is not on the citizen, but on the officer.

Now, if the officer can not easily establish your identification, based on what you provide, he or she may detain you until such time as they can establish that identification.

I do not, and will not carry my driver’s license while on duty…in fact, I don’t carry a wallet at all while on duty, my railroad id is on a beaded chain around my neck, and I do this on purpose.

If you are a railroad employee, and involved in a grade crossing accident, and the investigating police officer request you driver’s license, if you comply, it is quite possible to have a “motor vehicle accident” notation added to your driving record, even though you were not operating a motor vehicle on public roads, and having such a notation in your driving record increases your automo

26

This is very true. My pay is direct deposit also, so a signature is not required.

27

[quote user=“edblysard”]

Sempor,

Please show me what part of the Federal or your State’s Constitution requires you to carry a photographic id, or a drivers license.

[end quote]

I didn’t say anything about any requirement to carry any ID. I said the Police Officer may ask to see identification so he can fill out his report.

[continue quote user=“edblysard”]

The US Supreme court was quite clear in its ruling towards the requirements of identification.

Nothing in the Federal Constitution requires any US citizen to carry any form of photographic id.

A drivers license is nothing more that a permit, issued by your state, that allows you to operate a motorized vehicle on that states public roads.

The fact that it has become a de-facto form of photographic ID is not law.

Now, certain types of and places of employment, such as government offices/ agencies and law enforcement jobs do require a person to carry a employee id, (a government/employer issued badge, ID card, uniform, things like that) but all “the law” requires of the everyday citizen to that, when questioned by a law enforcement officer, they must identify themselves in a truthful manner…in other words, all you have to do is tell the officer your correct name, and offer enough details, such as an address, that the officer can establish that you are who you say you are…the burden of proof is not on the citizen, but on the officer.

Now, if the officer can not easily establish your identification, based on what you provide, he or she may detain you until such time as they can establish that identification.

I do not, and will not carry my driver’s license while on duty…in fact, I don’t carry a wallet at all while on duty, my railroad id is on a beaded chain around my neck, and I do this on purpose.

[end quote]

I agree with you and I don’t think I said anything to the contrary.

28

As a high school teacher, I completely understand where you are coming from. Teenagers aren’t taken seriously by society. I read your post and took a much different approach than Mookie. I was thinking to myself, “what a pleasant young adult who typed an intelligent post and listed a great many real concerns.” You didn’t specify that the SUV was yours. In fact, I read to mean that this is your parents’ vehicle and you are required to fuel it when you use it. My parents made me do the same thing, and that was back when gas was a buck a gallon!

Hang in there my friend. It’s tough at this age in your life. You’re bound by parental restrictions, high school (a full-time job, in my opinion,) and your passion for railfanning. I agree with the second poster about the bicycle. However, I’ve also travelled extensively in the northeast and I know that isn’t always safe or feasible. Many of those roads are windy and narrow, built for horses in the 1600’s and 1700’s. Cars speed down them and it can be dangerous for someone on a bicycle.

By my handle, you may have discerned that I have a passion for canoes. I have found that to be a great way to railfan. If you can find a stretch of river (like the lower Wisconsin River) where there are a great deal of rail bridges, it is a great way to railfan. Drop an anchor, fish for awhile (or read a book), and then get your camera out.

Good luck and safe railfanning!

Paddler

29

High School is a cakewalk… and it won’t get any easier. If your only problem is you can’t afford gas - consider yourself lucky! Take the time to stick to local RRs. Work on local photography, or stay at home and read up on your history until you can afford railfanning. The years will past fast enough, trust me.

30

Anyone else notice that the “teenaged railfan” has had no comment on his own posting? Maybe he isn’t as passionate about his thoughts as some of the rest of us. Or maybe it is time to set new troll traps…

31

If this is one of your problems, be thankful. Most of us barely had a car at all when we were teens.

32

[#ditto]

I was “post teen” before I had my first car, I would walk or ride my bike wherever I needed to go, and was able to do a lot of railfanning.

33

Yeah, but “way back then” when “we” was teens, few people lived where there were no RR tracks within walking distance. The old communities haven’t moved, but the tracks have been removed. New communities have not had a need to be built near the once major transportation system, but now advertise, “Easy access to the Interstate.”

34

You’re probably right, Always Steamin’, about the railroads being part of every small community. Now, even the places that have nearby railroads think of them as little different than power lines, and there’s no longer the local agent, in most cases, to tie the railroad to the community.

But in the years in which some of today’s spoiled teens are whining about not being able to fill up SUVs, I was discovering the limits of my bicycling capabilities when necessary, and cultivating friendships with other hobbyists, my age and above, my town and others (by mail, not by phone). These friendshiops got me to Chicago, and riding trains out of Chicago at a time when that place was 200 miles from home.

And let’s not overlook some indulgent parents, who planned parts of family outings that included something for everyone. I think that during my high-school years, that was a far more satisfactory option than having them say, here’s a car–have fun! I already had my magazine subscriptions and was not inclined to share, but my parents, to their credit, bought their own issues of Trains at times when they felt they needed to know a little more about what was going on with me.

And most importantly, one must realize that all of this is hindsight for me, and the best railfanning of my life is the result of what I’m doing to aid my cause right now. Complaining doesn’t cut it–just go, have fun, and make yourself some nostalgia to look back on.

35

When you are young, biking is probably the best alternative to driving a gas guzzling SUV (or any gasoline powered vehicle). If I had had a bike as a kid and continued to ride one throughout my adult life, maybe things would be different, but now my knees won’t let me do much in the way of riding any distance, and there are “up hills” both directions for me to get to any tracks. Besides, bicycling with a cane looks a bit silly!

I am sure today’s teens don’t see themselves as being “spoiled”, though those of us that grew up making our own toys, see the kid with store bought things as missing so much in the joy of life.

You are right about building memories. And good ones are a whole lot better than bad ones! Remembering when the family went railfanning together is better than remembering when the police came and arrested Dad or brother or yerself for doing something else. And having anything to remember is better than whatever was fun while you were so stoned that you can’t remember what it was. You make your own memories, so make 'em good enough to want them to last.

36

I’m really suprised there’s been only one comment about this post. JJ wrote that the police can confiscate your camera and film if the railroad wants it when you were shooting from public property? The railroad has ZERO say in this, and the police have to have justifiable cause to search anything of yours. They can ask and you can show them if you want (I have done so when asked and it’s always been fine.)

Plus, you didn’t tell the whole story. The two guys you are referring to in Chicago received an apology from the police for having bothered them. 9/11 didn’t take away the Bill of Rights.

This is a free country. Now, if you’re trespassing, then the po

37

a lot of you guys crack me up. “Back when I was your age…” Get over it. I guarantee most of you guys were complaining back in the 1950’s about only owning ONE tv. I’m sure those who lived through the Great Depression thought YOU guys were spoiled brats too.

Why is it that railfans are some of the most intolerant hobbyists out there? Whether it is a kid that gets killed by a train by cutting across the railyard (“Serves him right - shouldn’t be trespassing”) or some kid that is interested in railfanning and gets flamed (“Boo hoo, you can’t fill up your SUV.”)

Come on guys - show a little tolerance for your fellow human beings. This kid just had a few simple questions. Way to embrace the future of our hobby by making him feel accepted.

Please feel free to go back to your cynical look at society and remain concealed behind your monitors. I’m sure you’ll solve all of the world’s problems from your desks. LOL

38

What do you expect when the kid says “I can’t afford to to fill up my SUV to go railfanning”? Sympathy?

39

Not in this country, they can’t, and if they do it by force, they shouldn’t be surprised to be hit with a lawsuit. Try that with me, and I’m gonna own your railroad.

40

Paddler, I, for one, am very tolerant of young railfans who show an interest and a willingness to learn. There are a few railroaders like us out there–Ed Blysard is another one (you have only to read his post about his crew and the handicapped young man to realize what he’s made of).

P42 has alternatives that a lot of people don’t have–he’s not lacking in places to go, or trains or roads to take him there. He has some good ideas if he can share them with people. I almost blame his parents for not at least taking an interest in what he would like to do. We have some young people on this Forum who relate their experiences, including the fact that their parents take them to these places. I’ve met a couple of these people and their parents, and know that the parents aren’t always interested in railroads (we allowed one mother to go shopping with my wife while we watched trains), but they do have an interest in their kids. If this SUV isn’t P42’s own, perhaps his parents are more tolerant than he realizes.

Without knowing distances involved, I’d guess that it’s possible, if not feasible, for P42 to get to some of these places–school, museums, the nearest tracks–without using the gas guzzler. A bike trip or a hike might improve health in the bargain.

(And yes, I got through most of the 60s without any television, spent my high-school and college days without a car to call my own, and still use a bicycle as much as possible for the eight-mile trip to work, the six-mile trip to the hobby shop, or the 15-mile trip to another good railfanning location–I’m getting a little old for the 75-mile bike trip to Rochelle. All of these are one-way distances, by the way.)