Problems with new AR1 RLM

i have just installed a Digitrax AR1 RLM. The isolated reverse loop is about 6ft long. It is fed from a separate bus with 3 X 0.5mm droppers, one on each rail. The bus is 1.5mm stranded copper wire. The main track is also fed by a 1.5mm bus with 0.5mm droppers to every rail. The problem is that the loco will stop, loose sound, pause then start running again. The sound needing to be reactiveated by the cab. This happens at either the “in” end of the RL or the exit end depending on what the polarity is at that moment. I have tried adjusting the pot from min to max and everywhere inbetween. I also set up a test track with only 3 rails, an isolated rail between two track fed rails but it still does the same thing. Can anyone offer any advice please.

Does the length of the loop accommodate the entire train between the gaps after entering and before leaving?

Do you have other circuit breakers in the system?

I’m not able to visualize the 3 rail test track.

New member, first post, under moderation, gonna take forever to hear back from him. This is one of those times that I wish the moderator would release the OP’s replies immediately.

That said, could be any one of a number of issues. We need to know more about the layout, the type of power source, boosters, other electronic components.

Rich

I think he is referring to track sections when he says “rails”.

Rich

Thank you for your comments.sirry for the lack of information. Yes the RL section is much longer than my longest train. There are no circuit breakers on the RL, Digitrax advised that I did not need them, the rest of the layout is split into 3 districts and protected by a psx-3. I have a 5amp pro cab ( radio ) control system. There are 3 track busses one for each district all of 1.5mm stranded copper house wire twisted with .5mm droppers to every track section and in the yard area, to every point (turn out) as well. To set up a test section I used 3 pieces of straight track separated with insulated rail joiners. I connected track power directly from the command station to the AR1. I connected track power to the two end rails off my bus with a feed to to the AR1 and I fed the RL section of track from the RL1. Depending on the polarity of the RL the loco will either stop on entering or exiting the loop. The loco stops looses sound pauses then slowly continues on. I have adjusted to pot from max to min and most points inbetween but it does not seem to have any effect. I don’t understand how to set that. Digitrax can only offer advice for me to beef up all the cables which again l did try but still not working. If the cable size was so important you would think they would reference that in their instructions. Hope this helps, regards Porkster

[#welcome]

I assume you are aware of the Digitrax Tech Support Depot?

Scroll through this list and there might be something here to help you.

http://www.digitrax.com/tsd/product/AR1/

Henry and Rich both bring up good points with the circuit breaker sensitivity and needing more information about your DCC system.

regards, Ed

That is likely the problem. The AR1 has a mechanical relay whereas the psx-3 is a series of three solid state digital circuit breakers. As a result, the psx senses a short faster than the AR1 can correct it.

I used to have four AR1s on my layout, and they worked fine until I got fancy and installed four power districts, each protected by a psx circuit breaker. At that point, I began to experience the same problem as yours. The solution is to replace the AR1 with a PSX-AR and your problems should end.

Rich

Now, that is curious. When you set up the test track, was this totally independent of the psx-3? If the only electronics used in the test were your ProCab and the AR1, you should not experience the problem that you experience on the layout with the psx-3 in place. Tell us more.

Rich

I am not one of the electrical wizards here but your problem reminded my of Brendan’s problem. Brendan was a newbie who started a very verbose thread. He ran into a similar problem with PSX circuit breakers and a reverser. He started two additional, simulataneous threads and I’m not sure I can find them.

This may or may not be relevant to your problem. http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/255918.aspx?page=13#2881716

Brendan was an opinionated guy and bumped heads with other opinionated guys. He left in a huff, which was too bad for him and us.

You are being moderated as a newbie, in case you have any Ruskie brides for sale. It is frustrating, but ends at around 10 posts.

Hi Rich, I originally had the AR1 fed off the track bus via the PSX circuit breaker and it didn’t work for the reason you mention (relay verses solid state) so I checked with my hobby shop and Digitrax, both confirming that I didn’t need to feed the AR1 through a circuit breaker, so I took a feed from the supply side of the PSX-3 directly to the AR1. This at least had the loco moving through the RL albeit with the stopping problem. I have arranged to secure a PSX-AR and will try it out as soon as it arrives. As I understand it, the PSX-AR has a built in circuit breaker so there is no point or need to feed it via the PSX-3. Cheers Porkster

i took the track supply off the track bus which is fed via the PSX-3. The AR1 was feed directly from the power pro side of the PSX-3 so no cct breaker. Track power was fed to the SR1 and that in turn fed the isolated RL track (rail) Hey!! In describing this to you, I think I have made a mistake! In wiring up the test track I should have had the two end tracks (the ones on either side of the simulated RL) wired opposite to each other in order the test the RLM. I don’t think I did this. This is interesting because if the above is true and I am pretty sure it is then the polarity of all tracks in the test track should have been the same and the loco should not have stopped, do I have a problem with the IRJ? I am using Hornby one which are the black ones?

I cannot imagine a worse thread to refer the OP to than the one linked in the previous reply. Can’t we please just start with a clean slate here and help the OP resolve his issue?

Rich

That sound fine to me Rich, thank you, Porkster

I’m sorry your feeling are still hurt.

Henry:

You have to admit that reading both of Brendan’s threads from start to finish would be like reading ‘War and Peace’ over and over again!![swg][(-D][(-D]

Sorry, I couldn’t resist. No offense intended.

Regards,

Dave

Porkster:

Welcome to the forums!!! [#welcome]

Be patient with us while we help resolve your problem. These things sometimes take a bit of head scratching.

Dave

Porkster, the PSX-AR should solve your problem which is one of timing, the solid state PSX reacting quicker than the mechanical relay AR-1.

Digiitrax was correct in saying that you didn’t need to feed the AR-1 through a circuit breaker since the booster would cut power in the event of a short.

One thing to keep in mind with the PSX-AR is that it must feed directly off the bus. You should not wire it downstream from a PSX circuit breaker, per the PSX-AR diagram in the manual. If you wire the PSX-AR downstream from a PSX, a similar timing problem will occur in that the PSX will sense the short in advance of the corrective action taken by the PSX-AR.

Rich

You are correct in that the two end test track should be wired with opposite polarities to simulate a reverse loop where the track folds back onto itself. Try the test again to make sure you wired the test tracks correctly. In doing so, take note of the fact that if you simply conduct the test by running a loco back and forth through the test section, the polarities will only be mismatched on alternate runs.

The Horny IRJs should be fine. If the polarities of all three test tracks match, then there should be no pause as the loco crosses the IRJ. If there is a pause in such an instance, you would need to adjust the TTC (Tunable Trip Current) on the AR-1.

Rich

Hi Rich, thank you for that info, I have ordered a PSX-AR today so should have it in a couple of days. Keen to see if it solves my problem, I like your positiveness, so heres hoping. I have also decided to beef up my bus wires, 4mm in the longest section which is 10metres, and 2.5mm in the other two sections ( districts ) . I completed wiring the second district today, it feeds the yard area where every rail and turnout have droppers. I have keep the dropper length to an absolute minimum as well. Tomorrow I will rewire that 10m long section and again reduce the dropper length to the minimum. I believe both of these actions will improve the running of the layout and hopefully the reverse sections. You may gather that I am in the process of building this layout and am livening each day’s work as I go to eliminate problems at the end. Thanks for your help, Porkster