I have a number of Walthers kits already on my layout and a lot more yet to build. For the most part I have been pleased with these but I am really disgusted with the last two I have built., their concrete coaling tower and their cinder conveyor and ash pit. It is ridiculous how difficult it is to put together the tiny parts that make up the pulley and cable systems on these two kits. Who are these kits designed for? Most of us are not master model builders nor do we have the touch of a fine jeweler. I consider myself to be a modeler of average skills and I have been building plastic kits for years but I have never experienced as much frustration as I have with these two kits. Putting together these assemblies and getting them to look right has been next to impossible. Even if you are able to get them attached properly, they are so fragile, they break off easily with even the slightest touch. If I buy a stucture that is labeled as a craftsman kit, I expect it will require a greater skill to put together properly. When I buy a relatively inexpensive plastic kit, I don’t expect to need that same level of skill. I would much prefer to see kits with a little less fine detail, even if it means parts that are slightly out of scale in order to make them easier to work with. I’m not looking to build contest quality structures and I doubt most modelers are either. I buy plastic kits with the expectation that I can put something together that will look reasonably good on my layout in a short amount of time. That is certainly not the case with these two kits from Walthers.
It is my opinion of Walthers kits, that on the Monogram Scale of Skill Level. That Walthers Building kits rate a Skill Level 3. Which is the most advanced level of plastic kits. Craftsman kits are the next level up
James
I built the ash hoist for a friend and didn’t find it difficult, although I do agree that it’s a bit flimsy in the pulley area. I’ve also built the coaling tower, not the new large one but the small concrete one offered a few years ago. Didn’t find it too difficult either, but I thought it was a bit light on detail, so I added some parts I had left over from building a pair of Tichy coaling towers. Even the Tichy towers were not that difficult, although there was quite a bit more assembly required. The main drawback of these was the way that the major components need to be joined after eveything has been painted: not a good way to get a solid joint. I solved this by using piano wire “pins” to mechanically fasten everything in place, especially the walkways and the bucket hoist assembly. I think that the main reason some kits are difficult to build is that they are not engineered with assembly in mind. A good example is Walthers ADM grain elevator. this is an easy kit to build, but the design of the siloes puts a poor fitting joint in about the most visible area available, and it requires extra effort to get it to look satisfactory.
Wayne
please please please do not complain about the difficulty of building kits . next thing you know someone from walthers will read this thread , they’ll stop producing the kit , and it will be re-released in 2 years as a pre-built structure at twice the price . maybe it’s just me , but complaining that a “relatively inexpensive plastic kit” includes too much detail seems odd . usually the complaint is that there isn’t enough detail or that the details are incorrect
please don’t take this as any kind of put down or insult , i understand what you mean about kits sometimes being harder than expected , but that’s how we get to be better modelers , by learning to do things we thought we couldn’t do
I had my last kit with a bad defect in the walls looked like crap I went back to the store in malden and the lhs gave a discount on the powerplant its not bad but I wi***he level of quality was wached a bit closer
jm2c
jecorbett,
You are correct in that some Walthers kits are more challenging that other ones. I didn’t find the ash conveyor that difficult to put together but it IS more delicate than their other kits.
I had mine glued together already before I realized that I wouldn’t be able to paint the curved section to the bucket glide, at the bottom of the pit. Even with careful prying, I ended up breaking a couple of the leg mounts at the base. (Not really noticeable once it was re-assembled and painted.)
I’ve only been in MRRing for a little over 1-1/2 years now. I find that my biggest complaint with some of the Walthers kits is actually the lack of finer detailing. Case in point: Ash conveyor.
The thread they use for the pully system is too stiff and unrealistic. It’s a challenge to find thread that is thick enough to be in scale but not be so stiff that it doesn’t lay flat when spooled throught a pully. (I’m not sure if thread even exists that will have those properties.)
The Sanding tower and Wooden water tower kits also exhibit that same problem. On the water tower, I ended up substituting 37-link per inch chain in place of the “rope” thread. IMHO, it looks A LOT better and more realistic now. (You can see what I’m talking about if you click the link to my layout pics below.)
Also, the plastic weights are pretty much useless for what they are intended for. There isn’t enough weight to counteract the stiffnes of the thread. The dangle in midair rather than pull the “rope” down. (I have to come up with a solution for designing a more realisitc weight from brass tubing.)
jecorbett, maybe a solution could be that Walthers and some of the other manufacturers could rate their kits with a difficulty scale - e.g. 1 to 3; 3 being the more difficult. Or, maybe the best thing to do is to gauge the difficulty level by the detailing on the front of the box. If we see a lot of cross-members and support, we need to ask our
Try building the 300 or so piece Blast furnace kit and then get back to me. I disagree with you ,although walthers kits are a bit demanding,but not impossiable.
Patrick
Whenever I become frustrated with a kit or scratchbuild project, I either turn on
some relaxing music to work by, or simply put it away and return later, in a
better mood and refreshed.
I’ll admit to being stressed out when I posted this originally so you can write it off as a rant but I do think that these two kits do test the limits on how much fine detail you can reasonably put into a plastic model. Apply just enough glue to get the part to attach firmly without getting excess on it is a real chore. My biggest gripe with the pulley systems is the small holes that are provided through which a fairly thick thread must pass. On the coaling tower, the instructions actually tell you to use a pin to expand the hole on the counterweights. I did this and broke two of them off in the process. Why not just make the holes bigger, even if it is slightly out of scale. It’s not like that is going to be noticably to anyone but the most anal of rivet counters.
skill is the most important issue it sounds like.
I couldn’t agree with you more Tom. They are all good tools to have. I also like to have bambo wooden skewers on hand. (The kind you use for BBQing Kabobs) They apply glue really really well without the worry of the brush spreading glue where you don’t want it. (Or the hasle of cleaning out the brush) The round tip skewers also make excellent hole reamers. They also make it easier to pu***hrough that thread everyone is complaining about.
Self closing tweezers also help hold together parts that dont’ quite want to mate. (Case in point: the coaling tower support structures to the guide rail.
Small clamps are a must to hold buildings together. And corner clamps are a huge help for buildings which don’t include corner marked foundations.
BTW: Last night I finished my Walthers round concrete coaling tower and I LOVED IT! (What a co-winky-dink) It took me about 15 hours. I had some problems with getting the coal shoots straight. But other than that it’s clean sailing. Now I have to work up the courage to weather it properly. I’ll post pictures for the next weekend photo fun.
What I personally hate is parts so small, they snap or go flying off the spru never to be found again when cutting them. I NEVER use nippers for these parts as it puts strain on the tiny pieces. (Found this out the hard way.) Get the sharpest #11 Xacto blade you have to cut these small parts. Use a LIGHT scoring action to seperate them. If you push down too hard, the part wi
Some Walthers kits are difficult to put together. I guess they’re going for the appearance, rather than durability. Nothing wrong with that at all. Up to a point, that is. For example, I built one of their Jordan Spreaders awhile back. Nice kit, lots of detail, etc. However, I couldn’t get the moveable spreader blades to work. Because they’re molded “to scale” I kept breaking things, or things kept coming apart. I feel that if the plastic cylinders and rods were metal, or slightly larger in diameter, the model would have still looked “correct” but would have been more durable.
But, what really bugs me about some of their kits? On a few, the building walls don’t quite line up with the bases. (I like to use the bases, since I can then screw the building to the tabletop.) No matter how I tried, I couldn’t get the building’s shell to line up wtih the molded ‘plugs’ on the base. That is, until I took a closer look. I found that if I cut back the plugs a bit (away from the corners) and filed the building walls to a 45-degree angle, everything dropped into place nicely.
I have to admit that when I put the ash pit/conveyor together I thought it was only going to take an hour or so. Wrong! Where I didn’t find it too difficult, it certainly was detailed with small and fragile parts. It turned out very well.
I have many Walthers kits and have enjoyed assembling all of them. The only complaint I have is with any part that is cylindrical. The halves never want to go together and maintain the curve correctly without bending them at the seams until the glue dries. No big deal, but I have to use filler and sanding almost every time.
Added Note: With Walthers, you always need to check the beveled edges and match them to the correct adjoining part. (window frames, sides, bottoms,roof)
One trick you can use with the thead that is supposed to represent cable (I learned this with wooden ship models) is to buy a spool of thread and drop it in a pan of melted paraffin for a minute. The thread will absorb the paraffin making it stiff and easy to work with. After you run the thread through the pulleys and have them ready to be permanently attached, form the thread to be straight with your finger tips …like it is under tension, then glue.[;)]
I like kits with small parts that need lots of time to build, I don’t find building a kit that only takes 20 minutes or so to build fun anymore.
My problem with Walthers kits is that sometimes they aren’t really kits[:(!]
Take the Gold Ribbon Series ‘All Needs Insurance’ building - they glued the clear plastic windows/door to the frames. You cannot separate the windows frames from the window ‘glass’ without damaging something (or using some harsh chemical). I didn’t realize this until it was too late to return the ‘kit’.
So, how do I paint/weather the window frames without mucking up the window glass and without cutting hundreds of fiddly tape masks for each pane? Easy, sell it on ebay and get a real structure kit for that layout site. [V]
And, agreeing with ereimer: Walthers representative, if you’re reading this, remember George Orwell:
“Real structure kits good, Built Ups Baaaaad!”
Forgot one VERY important one:
- Magnification visor (the kind that push up and out of the way) - Worth their weigh in gold for cutting and apply small and delicate parts.
Tom
I’m going to guess that kit builders can be separated into one of two general categories, those who enjoy the process of precision engineering, and those who choose for a variety of reasons, price, selection, availability, not to go with RTR.
I’m sure there’s some overlap, I have some anyway, there are times I want whatever it is up and running right now, and other times I enjoy the process more than the finished product. I find that complicated tasks while in the “need it right now” attitude tend to be an exercise in frustration. I’ve learned over time to put a complex project aside when time pressure starts leading to frustration, and to avoid working on it until I have that warm "however long it takes to get it right " attitude going. No expectations equals no pressure and no stress.
Beyond that, a great deal of frustration stems directly from poor visibility. If I can’t see the sprue or flash well enough to discern the exact boundary between part and trash, I’m sure not going to end up happy with the cut. The smaller the part, the more of a problem this is. I use a high quality magnification headset, meticulously cleaned before use, and I’m not afraid to zoom in tighter if need be. I have a variety of magnifying glasses and will take however long it takes to cobble up the rig or jig to hold the optics and/or part I need to see what I need to see before proceeding. I have access to a Nikon stereo microscope if need be, but so far that’s only been useful for removing tiny splinters.
The other key to visibility is light. Quantity of light is an issue, up to a point, but you can get it too bright too. More important, after you reach the appropriate number of energetic photons, is the quality and direction of light. You sit facing the table, the table top is a common sense place to rest a spotlight, and doing this, you end up looking into a bright light, which is throwing shadows onto the side of the part facing you, the worst of two worlds. The bright light narrows your pup
jeffers_mz,
Forgot about a good task light. Yep, that’ a huge one.too.
Tom