Production in China

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
21

Well,

The cost of the model products go to a disaster in the european market.

Marklin is sold because of liquidities avaibility.Arnold Rapido the inventor of Nscale and the group Rivarossi were in bankrup before sold to Hornby.

Recently LGB had the same issue.

There are some other manufacturers you don’t know in USA because of their exclusivity of european products which have follow the same way.

Big european manufactures are going too in China like Hornby and the few remaining are thinking of the move in the next coming years.

The only reason is cost, because in Europe we have a lot of taxes and the working people are very expensive to pay, not their salaries but the taxes on their salaries.

A few year ago some publication had say that Model Trains will dissapear in Europe as an industry market because of the cost of production and the cost of models for the modeler.

A small steam loco in Nscale (my scale) is around 225 euros (326 usd) with poor running qualities beside the american ones and a diesel reach the 150 euros (176 usd).

So the youngsters didn’t play anymore trains and the modeler are old ones.

There is no many new models each years because the market is small.

Many people are now looking for American models because of course COST, only that.

I am not ready to pay such a lot of money for an hobby an certainly the youngsters can do it.

So for me and because I like so much this hobby, I dont care were the models are made, I want just an affordable price that’s all; the rest is just pure consideration.

For example, just see how many Atlas/china made models run in US or in the rest of the world; I don’t think that a lot of these modeler have care about the conditions they are made.

Happy new year.

22

This issue of off-shore production has been raised before. The simple fact of the matter is that Western consumers have an insatiable appetite for “stuff”, but we want it all for nothing. It strikes me as more than a bit hypocritical that people flock to WallyWorld in droves to buy their cheap stuff and then get all indignant about the flow of manufacturing jobs to the far reaches of the planet.

As for predictions about the future, I would say that China will indeed get its quality act together, just as Japan and Korea did. I would also say that there is still a LONG way to go before the cost of production in China gets high enough to warrant moving production elsewhere…there are all kinds of cities there with millions of inhabitants that most westerners have never even heard of…if costs get too high in Shanghai for example (which is indeed already the case, for certain industries), well you just pack up and move to a different city where labour costs are lower and laws regarding the environment and treatment of labour are more laxe. There are more special economic zones there than you can shake a stick at, and virtually every city has incentives for industry. (As a point of clarification, the labour laws previously referenced in this thread are of no practical value to workers and will not add significantly to Chinese manufacturing costs, and as a further point of clarification, you don’t need a “dictatorship” to foster this kind of environment).

As previously stated, China has so much US currency in its pockets, it could destroy the US economy overnight if it chose to do so. Therefore, all this tough talk from politicians on the balance of trade with China is just so much hot air.

At the end of the day, if you want to stem the tide, then put your money where your mouth is. The problem is not China, the problem is “us”.

Cheers.

23

Is Peco track actually made in the UK? People seem pretty willing to pay double the price for that over Chinese Atlas track.[%-)]Shinohara? A Japanese company I believe? People paying 2-3 times the price for that stuff. People WILL spend more for a quality product when the choice is there. The choice of U.S. made products has just been taken out of the equation.(I dare you to try and find some.)
BTW-Those U.S. companies crying poor that are sending jobs over seas and closing American plants that they say can’t compete. The ones crying for Federal bail out money. Those same companies just gave their CEO’s $30 billion in Christmas bonuses.(a new record) Some individuals getting as much as a $40 million bonus. (on top of their $200 million salaries.)
Good old American GREED boys and girls…
And I swear to GOD if someone comes back with the statement “When adjusted for inflation” concerning these REDICULAS salaries, I’m gonna reach through the screen and punch em!

24

Regarding jobs, the proverbial horse is already out of the barn. Why close the barn door now? USA negotiated the China trade deals in the late 1990’s and subsequently China joined the WTO. We still have full employment (better than 5% unemployemnt) here and we have shortages of qualified workers for good paying jobs (Not manufacturing).

Regarding China’s investment in US Treasury securities, it’s a good investment for China. According to Bloomberg .com, the yield over the recent 12 months was 8.7%. That’s not too shabby. If China chooses to dump its investment, it will need to sell them in the free markets. Uncle Sam won’t be bankrupted if that happens.

There are plenty of jobs transporting containers from ports to inland locations these days. Look at the increased container volumes on BNSF from ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach for example. Soon BNSF will have its entire mainline from LA to Chicago doubletracked (former Santa Fe).

That said, I buy “Made in USA” every time I can.

25

Where was all this fine outrage when the Southern and Western states took all the New England manufacturing jobs after WWII? There are still a lot of abandoned mills in southern New England…where did all those jobs go? South and West, that’s where. Today, it’s the same story, but now the South and West are losing to overseas markets instead.

I drive through Brockton, Fall River, Lowell, Providence, Waterbury, Willimantic, Attleboro, Mansfield, etc., and I see all these large brick buildings that are empty or filled with condos or shopping (if they’re lucky). I know these were teeming with business 60 years ago…and when I hear about the “woe is us, we’re losing jobs to China,” I think: Tough noogies, deal with it. New England did.

Paul A. Cutler III

Weather Or No Go New Haven

26

We Americans speak with our wallets. All you have to do is look at Wal-Mart. We “talk the talk” but we don’t “walk the walk”. ME INCLUDED!

As for me, I’m going to back to reading my book “Chinese for Dummies” as America continues to sell out to the Chinese Communists. I’ll be suprised if we’re all not speaking Chinese by the end of this century.

27

BTW-Those U.S. companies crying poor that are sending jobs over seas and closing American plants that they say can’t compete. The ones crying for Federal bail out money. Those same companies just gave their CEO’s $30 billion in Christmas bonuses.(a new record) Some individuals getting as much as a $40 million bonus. (on top of their $200 million salaries.)

And I bet the same companys had to layoff the poor guy barely making it right before christmas.

28

You wouldn’t hit a guy with glasses on now would you?

29

BTW-Those U.S. companies crying poor that are sending jobs over seas and closing American plants that they say can’t compete. The ones crying for Federal bail out money. Those same companies just gave their CEO’s $30 billion in Christmas bonuses.(a new record) Some individuals getting as much as a $40 million bonus. (on top of their $200 million salaries.)

And what does this have to do with the model railroad industry? The OP was posting about Hornby and its move to manufacture in China.

And since you’ve gotten so far off topic, the Toyota Corolla in my driveway was made in Fremont, CA with most of the parts being of US origin. Interestingly enough, Honda has been sending US made Hondas to Japan for nearly 20 years. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DEFD6123AF932A25757C0A96E948260

Also, it appears that the Japanese market is a bit behind us getting the latest Accord (called the Inspire in Japan) http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=124040

Toyota manufacturing plants in US: http://www.toyota.com/about/our_business/operations/manufacturing/index.html (scroll down to “Engineering and manufacturing” to get full list.

Kia joins Toyota, Honda, Subaru, etc.: http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/03/14/business/cars.php

Want more? Google works.

Andre

30

I think he’s mad enough to just use his fists.

31

There’s a show I really like to watch on the Discover channel (or maybe the History channel) called “How it’s made”. I’d really enjoy a look into some of the manufacturing facilities in China that Walthers uses. Are they really more efficient? I have been quite happy with their quaility.

Jim

32

“Hi! Welcome to Wal-Mart. Here’s your cart.”

33

Andre said "

And what does this have to do with the model railroad industry? The OP was posting about Hornby and its move to manufacture in China.

And since you’ve gotten so far off topic…"

Thanks Andre …

BTW … Alsom, the French maker of TGV trains and other stuff announced they are considering plans to construct a manufacturing plant in Chattanooga, TN. The change in exchange rates has resulted in several big foreign companies considering moving manufacturing to the USA.

I doubt Hornby is one of them, however.

34

Also of note is the fact that we spent billions during the cold war for what, and now that they have taken over a lot of manufacturing they are accusing us of worrying over ideals instead of business, kind of funny that the cold war would have ended sooner if we had built them factory’s!!! But remember they are communists and they will proclaim that till their last capitalist breath :slight_smile:

35

Thats a GREAT idea. I second that notion. [tup]

36

Well they can move the stuff overseas to another third world Nation to start the cheap process all over again. Maybe out of Africa this time.

Reversing the current Intermodal Shipping from west to east is really going to be tough.

37

Would you like a number one meal and a happy drink?

Eventually not even that.

38

[i]Andre said "

And what does this have to do with the model railroad industry? The OP was posting about Hornby and its move to manufacture in China.

And since you’ve gotten so far off topic…"

Thanks Andre …

BTW … Alsom, the French maker of TGV trains and other stuff announced they are considering plans to construct a manufacturing plant in Chattanooga, TN. The change in exchange rates has resulted in several big foreign companies considering moving manufacturing to the USA.

I doubt Hornby is one of them, however.

[/i]

Things have a way of evening out over time. Back in the early 60’s there was a book by some Frenchman warning about the American juggernaut and how it was going to take over everything. Can’t remember the guy’s name or the book’s title, unfortunately. It didn’t exactly happen the way he predicted. Not even close.

The problem with being a “juggernaut” whether you’re British, American, Japanese, Chinese, orwhatever is that you eventually get complacent. Then someone comes along and outdoes you at what you thought you did best and you then have to start playing catch-up. China’s not just just our competitor. The Chinese are also competing against all other industrialized countries, too. The Sharp (Japanese) LCD TV sitting next to me is made in China. 30 years ago, I bought a Hitachi (also Japanese). It had been manufactured in Taiwan. I seriously doubt that you can trust a brand name anymore to determine where a product actually originated.

With the dollar dropping against other currencies, it’s making it cheaper to manufacture things here. The Japanese auto makers (among others) learned that lesson at least 20 years ago when the yen became so strong.

To return this to something more about trains, GE has a strong presence selling locomotives to China http://m

39

Well I’ll chime in with my TWO CENTS WORTH!

A friend of mine flies RC helicopters and is 18 years old and is the reigning National RC Heli champion.He lives in Ft Wayne Indiana, and recently one of his sponsors "Futaba Radio Systems "along with another of his sponsors ( major hobby company) sent him and his Dad to Taiwan(all expenses paid) for a a Heli Expo. While there , they visted one of te factories where ARF helicpters are made ARF stand s for “Almost Ready to Fly”.Anyway this facory had three floors, many employees,( no air conditioning, no health insurance plan), and they work for the EQUIVALENT of 25 CENTS US funds an hour and are happy to do so!
Okay, they work for TEN DOLLARS a week!

How many Americans will work for TEN DOLLARS a week?Well guys , here’s your answer!!!And our politicians keep letting American jobs leave the country, so next time your asked to support your local POLITICO ask him or her their stand on US jobs leaving the country!!!
But yet many of you will easily fork over money to help them out, only to have them empty your pockets more later on. My answer to all of them when they ask for campaign funds? Go to CHINA and ask DUDE!!!

Oterwise GO POUND SAND!!!
As another example, look up a company called Nitro Model Products.They make RC ARF airplanes.Most of them are LARGE MODELS and built very nicely, high quality, and are DIRT CHEAP . I myself can’t SCRATCH BUILD or buy a KIT and all the materials to complete it for the prices these models are offered at and they ARE COMPLETLY BUILT , just add engine and radio and go fly!If I built it myself, the cost would be at MINIMUM , TWICE what Nitro sells for!

Model airplanes (RC) has been my other hobby for years, but the hobby also has been effected by “GLOBALIZATION”. Get used to it folks, GLOBALIZATION and CHEAP overseas labor is a FACT OF LIFE!!!

40

What do you mean, “letting” them do it?

What do you want, more laws to force private businesses to be run the way you want?