I have a problem with professionally built layout articles in MR. Sure, they are beautiful (they should be for what they cost!) but featuring them in a “do it yourself” magazine just rubs me the wrong way.
When I read one of MR ubiquitous “layout tours” I expect to get the insight of the builder not the person who paid someone to build it for him. Even worse, the article I’m talking about isn’t even written by the person who paid the professional builder to build it but someone else.
I, like about 99% of model railroaders, can’t afford to pay someone to build my layout for me. I’m glad Gary Lenoff can afford to pay Dick Taylor to build him a beautiful layout, but that is not what I care to see in MR. In fact, it might be more interesting to interview Dick Taylor and find out what steps he took to build Gary’s layout.
If this trend continues, perhaps MR should start a spin off magazine called Layouts of the Richand Famous.
I don’t have a problem with MR featuring a professionally built layout as long as there is a disclaimer or it’s clearly marked as such. Seeing the work of true artists serves to provide me ideas and inspiration I can use on my own layout.
George, I agree with you one hundred percent. Some will say that such articles offer ideas to general hobbyist but, without providing any actual information on how the work was done to guide others, that’s just pure nonsense in my view. What it does do is to provide an almost guaranteed highly photogenic subject to illustrate a magazine article.
And if you dislike that approach, well, I’ll be interested to see the type of response readers will have as Photoshopping images becomes a larger and larger part of layout pictures appearing in the hobby press. I’m seeing a lot of it sneeking into non-model railroad publications already (added foregrounds and background; introduction of people into shots; added or erased scenic features). Sooner or later I fear that published layout photos could become essentially image-manipulation fantasies, rather than realities based on the creator’s cleverness and craftsmanship.
Maybe it’s a sign of the times. In our increasingly busy lives we tend to delegate. In the Netherlands the big trend is to outsource your daily chores. Someone to clean the house, your groceries delivered to your door, someone to paint your house or do the garden.
But in a hobby this outsourcing is not very desirable. What fun is it when you have your layout built by someone else? I also question the value of this type of article. What does it teach or inspire? Without inside knowledge or tips from the professional builder it’s basically a nice photo shoot. Nice but lightweight. Inspiring? Nah. Building a layout is an accomplishment by the hobbiyst. It’s like reading a cooking magazine and the feature article is about someone who went to a bakery and bought a nice cake. That is USELESS.
What I always liked about US magazines was the willingness to superdetail, paint and (scratch)build a model. The European mags featured grass-mats (yuck) and everything RTR and pre-assembled. Now it’s the opposite.
I agree 100% that those sorts of layouts ought not to be featured. Those articles are nothing but a multi-page advertisement for the builder, and a chance for the owner to get some face-time. I find it ironic that MR will allow such articles, even pay a writer to produce it, and yet not allow a “for-sale” section on this board. Apparently there are different rules for different income levels.
Now, I have absolutley NOTHING against folks buying a fully-made layout. If you have the money and that’s what makes you happy, well then go for it. Some rich folks collect cars, others buy expensive boats or guns, having a custom-built layout is no exception.
I agree. I’ve noticed that MR has been featuring more professionally built layouts and is turning into more of a showcasing magazine than a magazine to help people who do model railroading as an enjoyable hobby. Anyone with mucho dinero (money) can have a beautifully professionally built layout. I certainly couldn’t afford to pay a professional to build me a layout and even if I could I wouldn’t because building things and learning new modeling skills are the most enjoyable parts of the hobby. Unfortunately, Fine Scale Modeler has gone down the same path. I believe the most enjoyable aspect of this hobby is building the models and layout yourself while learning what pitfalls to avoid. This method, besides reading and researching instructional articles, is the only way to improve your modeling skills. I probably won’t renew my subscription to MR if this trend continues. Recently, I’ve been getting most of my information about modeling techniques from Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette, Railroad Model Craftsman, older issues of MR, and internet sites, including this forum and others, and from personal sites - some that are hosted by people on this forum - and other sites that are hosted by individuls who truly love what ther’re doing and want to help others improve their modeling skills. I realize all things change but my main purpose in reading modeling magazines is to learn new and better modeling skills by a preponderance of comprehensive “how to” articles.
A different point of view: It’s called photogenics. The bigger better layouts produce much better photos for a magazine. I photographed models for a manufacturer for a couple years. We used actual layouts. The results were very mixed. Worst case, some photos were not usable at all.
Many home layouts are so jammed in there is no room for lights, tripods, decent angles, etc. All are required for publishable photos. There has to be a usable backdrop or room to place one. Some of the scenes on your layout may look great to you, but a photo will often show flaws - ever see a model off the track? Room lighting will affect the photo, even changing the color in some cases. There are sometimes scenes that just don’t look right in a photo - such things as out of scale vehicles, people in weird poses, buildings with no roof detail etc.
Instead of looking down at these, look for ways to improve your layout and modeling. Try to get a friend to come in and shoot some photos of your layout. You might be surprised at what shows up.
The first time I wrote this post it ended up very ugly and not very polite. All I have to say, is to let everyone enjoy the hobby in their own way. If they’ve got the extra cash and are willing to spend it on having someone build a layout for them then so be it. It doesn’t make them any less of a model railroader in my book.
I have to agree everyone and that is why I rarely read MR and have since switched a few years ago to Railroad Model Cratsman. It gets boring when I am reading an artical or even worse when i was reading Playing with Trains that this person would come in and to the wiring and so forth. SUre it would be nice to have someone do it and not take the almost 3 years to get to the point I am at now but when I look at the work I have done I have come along way and It seems I get just about all the info I need from forums like this one. Now with saying that I have saved some photos of scenery and such that were just amazing that I want to put on my layout. Joseph
I like to build my own stuff, but then again, why not look at a “professional built layout” as a way of learning???
Somene who possesses the gifted talent of being able to turn a hobby into a profession?
What a great way to make a living!
Sure, I’ll never have the time or room to build a huge layout, but looking at some of these sure does give me some inspiration, and the ability to dream!
To quote a line from one of my favorite videos which just happens to be a documentary produced by NBC on the X-15 rocketplane program, which led to the development of the space shuttle.
Aviation is my other hobby, and I had the wonderful experience of meeting one of my boyhood heroes and idols who both helped design and fly the X-15, Scott Crossfield, 2 years ago at the annual EAA air show in Oshkosh Wisconsin.
The quote is as follows.
You an apply it to building a model railroad as well.
I don’t know. I think MRRing and being a MRRer incorporates - at least to a modicum extent - means gettting your hands “dirty” to really appreciate the hobby. I’m NOT saying that this gentleman, who paid someone else to construct and build his layout for him, isn’t a MRRer. However, depending on how much of the layout was constructed for him, I think Mr. Lenoff missed out on some real enjoyment of the process.
Now I realize that some people have the time but don’t have the money. While others have the money but don’t have the time. Still others have both but don’t have the talent or patience.
For me personally - even if I did have the monies to pay for someone else to put together my “ideal” layout - I wouldn’t. The personal enjoyment and fulfillment at trying something new that I have never done before (and actually accomplishing it - whether I’m ultimately happy with it or not) is priceless. The knowledge that I learn in this hobby and the benefits that I gain I can sometimes apply to what I do in life. To actually have someone else build my layout?..It would always feel like someone else’s layout.
To each his own. The big and massive will always wow the public as a whole. I just hope that MR doesn’t allow itself to turn into a PBS. It used to be that This Old House dealt with the fix-it problems of the common man. Now, it pretty much caters to the rich and affulent. (Personally, they should have changed the title to This Old Mansion years ago…)
IF this layout comes from March 07, I haven’t gotten mine yet. But if they post a plan, I can learn from it, professional or no. I want to learn how layouts work and I get that from the plan and by figuring out the operations. Can I learn from the pros. Sometimes. Last year they had a 4 x 8 professionally done and that operationally was horrible. They has a farmer supply store that had railroad service, but no way to get a car, truck or wagon to the store–and that was the only industry.
So I want to see good layouts. Ones I can learn from.
I agree to a certain extent with jsoderq’s comments above. I’ve photographed several layouts that have been published (in MR and others), and very rarely will things be easy. But any photographer can make do, and get decent shots. Cars off the track? This has nothing to do with who made the layout. Room lighting affecting the layout photos? Not really, photographers usually provide their own photo lights, at least I do. The other flaws could be on any layout no matter who built it, and could be fixed, hidden, or not included in a photo.
Not really sure how this translates into an opnion re professionally built layouts. I guess one has to assume that if someone can afford to have a layout built for them, the location of the layout would be in a large well lit room without support posts, utility piping and ductwork, etc.&nb
Is it just me or are a lot of professionally built layouts unprofessional looking?
Most I’ve seen have out of place mountains, oversized trestles, unrealistic triple crossovers, way too much track, and surprisingly very few mini details. I suppose the trend is to fit in as much action to suit the customer.
But the layouts I love to look at have very few tracks and lots of open space scenery. And most have little room but make it look like it’s an open scene using good modeling techniques. It’s this type of layout that impresses me the most.
I don’t read the layout articles based upon who built it. I’m trying to steal ideas that I can use or modify for my layout. The fact that someone gets paid to build layouts doesn’t diminish my interest at all. I admire good quality craftsmanship whether amateur or professional.
Well, for one thing, I don’t believe MR touts itself as a “do it yourself” magazine, just one supporting the idea that “Model Railroading is Fun!”, so that isn’t really an issue it seems. For another, some people can’t stand carpentry and wallowing in Hydrocal but thoroughly enjoy operating and building rolling stock. Isn’t that model railroading too?
If we think people should only build their own layouts, do we think people should not use RTR rolling stock or locos, or turn our noses up at store-bought track? If we think professional builders/designers are bad, did anyone complain about articles on John Armstrong’s or Linn Westcott’s plans that either of those two didn’t build and run themselves? Sure, you could say that the accompanying articles told us what they were thinking, but if we want to be rigid and doctrinaire, we can’t go letting people get away with heresy just because they are legends.
I agree with the other guy - Give me good layouts, regardless of designs or builds them.
The point is not in buying RTR rolling stock or not.
The point is that to create a model railroad is all about CREATIVITY and learning things.
Having a layout built by a contractor is not about creativity. It’s about getting instant results.
If someone really doesn’t like to build a layout and has the money, than that is his choice. But he’s missing out on a lot. A lot of people seem to do that these days, taking shortcuts and getting to the result instead of enjoying the journey.
I happen to find some of the adds interesting. And like said before as long as it’s clamed to be built by someone else. I think building professional MRR a nice profession. Man that would be an interesting job. And I can honestly say that if I had money to burn I wouldn’t sit back and pay someone thousands of dollars to build me one. I would hire some big guns to HELP me build it, but I would definately be involved with it.
Well Folks ,We’ve been here before ,and fairly recently too. Before the last thread on this subject I was,like, yeah, a person should build there own layout. But in that thread someone pointed out that 99% buy our rolling stock,quite a few buy the builtups that are available. What about flex track,and if not snap switches then at least the ME line or Shinohara or whatever. Who buys rock molds rather than make their own from latex. Who buys figures etc.rather than make them from wax as John Allen did. If a guy doesn’t have the time or talent to build his own layout. Who’s gonna tell him he isn’t a modelrailroader for not building his own. One last thing ,the guy who gets paid to build that layout is just one of us who is lucky enough to have gotten paid for doing what he loves,and is also good enough to have his work featured in the Magazines.