Can anyone tell me what values to put in CV’s 53-21-22 to have headlight or rear light on or off, for a consist. QSI quantum sound ver. 6 Thank’s. Boxcarhenry
I’ll certainly be watching this topic to see what kind of answers pop up – I have never been able to get consist lighting to work with any brand of decoder, and no decoder manufacturer ever explains it in their documentation.
They nearly all say that their decoders support consist lighting, but they don’t tell us how to program it.
Hopefully, Randy Rinker or Joe Fugate will know.
I beg to differ – SoundTraxx and QSI explain how to do it. CVs 21 and 22 control whether a locomotive responds to function commands, including lighting, sent to the consist. QSI even has recommendations for lead, middle, and trailing locomotives in a consist. Most of the others document what these CVs do, if in a very sketchy fashion.
Lighting (FL fwd and FL rev) is controlled by bits 0 and 1 of CV 22. If those bits are on, the loco will respond to directional lighting commands sent to the consist address.
If this doesn’t work for you, it may be that your command system doesn’t send the appropriate commands to the consist address. Check the documentation.
For those of us with NCE PowerHouse Pro systems, for example, the lighting options work, but F5 through F8 don’t. That’s because, prior to the 12/04 upgrade, NCE didn’t send any functions to the consist address. The upgraded systems since then do, but there’s a bug – Function Group 2 commands (F5 through F8) are actually sent as Function Group 3 commands (F9 through F12). They promise to fix this in the next version, which Larry Larson of NCE Customer Service says should be available this month.
I don’t know if the ProCab has the same problem.
thank;s for the reply, Pondini, but as a newbie to dcc, my problem is the quantum manual tells me what to do for consist lighting, but not how to do it. How do I change individual bit values in CV’s? Boxcarhenry
Ahh, now I see what your real question was! You need to do a binary conversion – but don’t worry, it’s not quite as geeky as it sounds.
First, however, what sort of DCC Command Station do you have? If it’s NCE, it has a programming option that allows you to specify bits (just like in the QSI charts), and it does the conversion for you.
Once you’re in Programming Mode (program track or on the main), you usually select option 2, to enter first a CV number, then a numeric value. Instead, select option 9. First you enter a CV number, then there’s a display that lets you enter individual bits. Just press the number of the bit you want, and it will change from 0 to 1 or 1 to 0. Then press enter and the binary is converted and sent to the loco.
If not, here’s an online tool that will do the conversion for you:
http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~gurwitz/core5/nav2tool.html
The basics are, each bit has a value, but note they are numbered from right to left - 7,6,5,4,3,2,1,0. Add them all up to get to the numeric value.
If you want bits 1 and 0 on, the binary is 00000011.
The values, by bit, are: 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128.
So you add 1 (bit 0) and 2 (bit 1) to get 3.
So if you enter 3 in CV 22 for an engine, it’s headlight and rear light will work when lighting commands are sent to the consist address; Functions F9 thru F12 will not.
There’s another easy way, if your DCC command station can be connected to your computer. It’s DecoderPro, a software product in the JMRI family that shows a consistent, graphical interface for programming just about any decoder. For those CVs where each bit does something different, you’ll see individual options.
It also allows you to create a Roster of your engines, including all their CV settings. This is very handy if you buy another engine/decoder like one you have, so you can just copy the old roster entry to a new one, and with one click set all the CVs in the new loco. And if you ever have to do a decoder reset, you can automatically set all the CVs back to your values.
Best of all, it’s very inexpensive for what you get . . . in fact, it’s free!
Here’s a link to the main JMRI site (click on Decoder Pro for that info): http://jmri.sourceforge.net/
Thank’s once again for the great reply to my programming question. took your advice and sent for interface cable MS100 to connect my system to my PC. I have digitrax super chief. have allready downloaded decoder pro. seems very promising, thanks again. Boxcarhenry
If it is not too late cancel the MS100 and order a Loco Buffer II USB instead, it will communicate better with your computer and the Super Chief.
The method outlined by Pondini will only work with advance consisting. Universal consisting don’t use CV22. There was an interesting thread on consisting not too long ago.
Here is my understanding of CV22 to achieve light control with advance consisting.
Set CV22 to 1 to the leading engine. This will light its forward light when the consist is going forward and shut it when the consist is in reverse.
If the trailing unit is going elephant style set CV22 to 2 to this loco. This will shut the front light when the consist is going forward and put on the reverse light, when the consist is going backward.
If the trailing loco is back to back in the consist, set CV22 to 1. This will shut the rear light when the consist is going forward and light the front light when the consist is going backward.
If there are middle units shut the lighting using their individual addresses.
Jack W.
The NCE ProCab and/or NCE decoders (DA-SR) evidentally don’t support advanced consist lighting functions because I have never been able to get it to work correctly with them. No matter what value I program into CV22, the lights are still directional in all the locomotives within a consist as if they were still running on individual addresses.
I’ve got a couple of DASRs, in an old P1K F3A and a Genesis F3A. Both were purchased in May of 2002. The DASR’s documentation (both the old printed one and what’s on the NCE website as of today) both list CV22 as controlling FLf and FLr, although not in any detail.
But they DO operate correctly as the last engine in a consist, running backwards. With it’s CV22 set to 2, there are no lights on when the consist is going forward, and headlght on when in reverse, using my NCE PowerHouse.
I’ve never used a ProCab, but I think I’ve read that it works just like the PowerHouse model. What does the documentation say about sending lighting/function commands to the consist address?
One thing I have noticed: you must turn the lights OFF for the trailing loco, then ON for the consist for them to work correctly. I’m pretty sure you can do this either before or after setting-up the consist.
And you are using “Advanced” consisting, aren’t you?
How old is your DASR? I guess it’s possible that versions earlier than about May of 2002 were different, but that seems unlikely.
If this still doesn’t work, I’d recommend calling or e-mailing NCE – they’ve always been very responsive to my questions.
To Cacole,
I am surprised at your comments, and agree with Pondini on this matter except I would set CV22 to 1 in the exemble below. I might be wrong as the bit affair is getting confusing and I may be a bit tire.
Quote from Pondini
But they DO operate correctly as the last engine in a consist, running backwards. With it’s CV22 set to 2, there are no lights on when the consist is going forward, and headlght on when in reverse, using my NCE PowerHouse.
End of quote
One other thought . . . in the PowerPro “Setup Command Station” process, there’s an option to “Send Function Commands to Consist Address”, that’s “Yes” by default. Assuming it’s the same, or similar, for the ProCab, you might want to check that it’s still “on”.
I just went through all of the suggested programming of CV values and Command Station setup with the ProCab again, and the only change in the lighting is that now, with a value of 1 in CV22 of both engines, the ditch lights of both units in the consist stay on regardless of direction of travel, and the backup light of the second engine, regardless of direction of travel, comes on, which it should not do.
When I went through the Command Station setup procedure, I noticed that it gave me a manufacture date of 2004. I bought the system last year, so it must have been sitting on a shelf for two years. Maybe I’ll have to contact NCE and get an updated EPROM in order to get consist lighting to function properly. I’m beginning to wonder if it’s worth the hassle and expense.
Maybe I’ll just stick with steam engines and run the diesel consist as it is, even though the lighting is not prototypical.
Ah, don’t give up yet!
Again, I’m not familiar with the ProCab, but it’s relatively new – can’t have been on a shelf for 2 years. I strongly suspect what you’re seeing is the same thing I see – the software date. 12/04 is the latest (released) software for the PowerHouse Pro, and I think the ProCab runs the same software. So if you’re seeing 12/04, then it’s up to date (they say the next version will be out this month). And if you see the Send Functions to Consist Address prompt in the Command Station setup, you know it’s there.
Are your ditch lights on a separate function key, or controlled by FL(fwd), with the headlights? Sounds like they’re on with FL(fwd).
Did you turn lights off for each engine separately, then on for the consist? For some reason, this usually helps on mine.
Depending on what lights you have, and whether the last unit is running forwards or backwards, did you try “3” in CV
I just tried those values and they made no change at all in the lighting. I’m beginning to suspect that it’s the DA-SR decoders that are causing the problem. They are in Athearn Genesis SD70M models, but I don’t think that should make any difference.
A strange thing about the advanced consist setup that I just noticed is that no matter what value I input to the consist number prompt, the ProCab changes it to the lead locomotive’s number of 1006. Is that normal? It seems that the DA-SR decoders are not recognizing the consist setup command, although the engines do run as a consist.
Now that’s just too weird! To mangle a phrase, the farther we go, the confuseder I get!
I’m beginning to agree about the decoders. But let me ask a couple of things again:
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Do you know, even roughly, just how old the decoders are? Shouldn’t matter, but the documentation on NCE’s site says it was last revised in October, 2003. Mine are older than that (May of 2002), so perhaps there was a change or even a bug in even older versions.
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How are the ditch lights wired? Are they on outputs 3 and 4, controlled by the headlight and F2, as per the example in the documentation, or some other setup?
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I didn’t ask this before, but is the rear engine running forward or reverse? I’m assuming you want all lights off in the rear engine when the consist is going forward; what do you want to happen in the rear loco when the consist is in reverse?
I hate to suggest it, but have you done a reset on these decoders (CV30 = 2)? Might be worth a shot.
I put both locomotives on the programming track, one at a time, and identified the decoders as versions 2.2 and 2.3. Both were purchased from Tony’s Train Exchange and installed in December 2002. NCE’s web site documentation indicates the current DA-SR decoder as version 3.5, Rev. D.
I reset both decoders to their factory defaults, re-programmed the ditch light functions according to the version 3.5 instructions, and they are working correctly except when in a consist; however, the only thing that is not correct now is that the rear lights on both engines come on according to the direction of travel; i.e., they’re still directional lighting. I guess that’s just something I’m going to have to live with. The headlights and ditch lights are functioning properly whether running as individual engines or as a consist, so I guess that’s as close as I’m going to be able to get them.
Thanks for all of your help and advice.
For my own benefit could you please tell me if both engines are running elephant style or back to back in the consist and what are the value you programmed in CV22 for each loco individually.
Thanks
Jack W.
I have the engines running back-to-back with default values of CV21=255 and CV22=63. No matter whether I give CV22 a value of 0, 1, 2, or 3, nothing changes.
Thanks Cacole, I will do some test at the club and let you know the outcome. Probably next week.
Jack W.