Project: Live Steamer

Garden Railroading
1

Hey Y’all,

I want to build a live steamer. First, let me explain why.

Today in class (Global Studies), my teacher announced a project that will be due in November. We are to reaserch or create a model of an invention that was invented during the time period of 1750-1870. It must fit in those dates.

He told of some students whose projects were his favorites. One was a full sized, working Gullitine, which they used to cut up a few watermelons for a snack. Then there were some other working ones. But his favorite was a working, stationary steam engine.

If it works you get a bonus of 10 points. If it works and it looks likes the real thing you get a bonus of 30 points.

So, I decided to build a Steam Locomotive (Live Steam) for the rpoject and for me to run for fun.

I have decided to use Roundhouse, Accucrat, and Mamod parts, such as a bad, funnel or smokestack, tender (mamod), cylinders, and that stuff, but the boiler will be sratchbuilt.

The shop and Horticulture teacher agreed to help build the boiler, as long as I provided all the needed materials.

So, here is where you all come in. I need drawings, photos, books, and anything on building Live Steamers. A working boiler drawing is needed more than anything.

The engine will be an English (early) 2-6-0, painted Red or Blue with a Roundhouse Funnel, Tender, and Cylinders and a Mamod Tender and whistle and a Accucraft pressue gauge and whatnot.

I will need as much help and info possible from you all.

Oh, and I am prepared to spend the money nessecary (I’m geussing its over the $150 mark), because, as I said before, I will keep it to run for fun.

One more thing. I am also going to scratchbuild a pair of coaches for the engine, but thats another story.

Cheese

2

Heres some links that may be of interest…
http://www.catfish-hollow.com/
http://jensensteamengines.com/
http://www.pmresearchinc.com/
http://www.grahamind.com/index.html
http://www.mamod.co.uk/
http://www.sssmodels.com/
http://www.panyo.com/project/
and if all else fails… use google.com
Also, look up any and all hobby shops in your local area and get to know the ones that are willing to help.

3

Okay, I admire your determination. Your budget, however, might be a bit low – depending mostly upon how much you can fabricate vs having to buy.

The most important part that I would strongly recommend purchasing rather than save a few dollars trying to fabricate is a safety valve. Get a decent one (15-20psi+), not one for a “toy” engine, or you’ll end up with very poor performance.

You also didn’t specify what KIND of boiler you are looking to build.

A “pot” boiler like the Mamod uses is simplest, but very inefficient. Adding a few water tubes to the firebox area helps but it’s still wasteful.

Next up in complexity is the monotube design, this has one large internal fire tube, and is often used in gas fired locos like the Accucraft Ruby. Again adding water tubes in the main flue (in a helix) will help efficiency.

Smithies? This is basically a pot boiler with a few largish fire tubes added.

More involved yet is a multitubular design, with or without a crownsheet and wet sides…this is the most prototypical, complex, and yes - expensive way to go. Many tiny boilers built this way are used on expensive coal fired models

Which brings up the question WHAT are you planning on firing the thing WITH? The answer to this question will help you decide what your best boiler design will be. Dry fuel tablets? (expensive but easy), alcohol (aka “meths” cheap, easy, but burning spills can be a PitA), Sterno? (IMO, bleah), Butane? (burners and fuel tanks are rather complicated to build, or costly to buy), Coal? Kerosene/lamp oil? Dried camel chips?(okay, now I’m being rather silly, but you get the idea)

A few more $5 questions. What kind of cylinders? Oscillators(Wobblers)? Piston valve? Slide Valve? One cylinder or multiple? Non-reversing or what kind of reverse?

You also didn’t really indicate the time frame you have to build this beasty in. Do you have weeks? A couple months?

4

Cheese, I am also in the process of building a live steam locomotive -it is not as simple as it sounds!!! I have been helped by my father (who used to be outreach for Beyer Peacock) -but most of all by the books of Lillian Lawrence -the famous ‘LBSC’. The four pages that I have scanned for you are for a small vertical boilered loco. The book is from 1929 and is called ‘Shed Shop and Road’ mine is an original copy, after having read it several friends ordered modern re-prints from Amazon!!! http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sheila.capella/mls/lbsc1 http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sheila.capella/mls/lbsc2 http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sheila.capella/mls/lbsc3 http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sheila.capella/mls/lbsc4 Here is the page for my own humble efforts… http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sheila.capella/cabbage/heilmann.html

5

Hi

Further to Elmik’s comments re boiler with proper safety valve I would add copper?? steam lines to a reversible twin cylinder marine engine so it can be controlled a bit better.

Particularly in view of your intention to build it for more than just a school project

The vertical boiler-ed locomotive would look good with a couple of Ye Olde 4wh B&O flour cars or log bunks maybe stage coach or other earlier style 4Wh passenger cars.

regards John

6

Hmm,

I have until November, but, if this will take a while then I’ll go ahead and start and show the prgress and explain how it will work rather than rushing it.

I’m not to fond of vertical Boiler engines. They are nice, but they aren’t my style.

I’m not sure which type of cyliners I want. I was considering purchasing Roundhouse cylinders for the engine. I certantly do not ant to use Mamod cylinders, but I do want to use Mamod Buffers.

For the boiler I’d like a Smithies Boiler. As long as it is similar to real steam locomotive boilers.

Really, the only thing I plan to fabricate is the Boiler and Chassis (Maybe). Everything else will be pruchased such as Pressue Gauges, Water Glass, Saftey Valves, A Cab, A Dome, A Whistle (Not a Dummy, mind you), a Smokestack, and all the other needed stuff.

I’d like to get a Mamod Tender or MSS or whatever for the engine and modify it if possible to store water and coal, which I plan to use for feul.

I actually ordered (well, my mom did) a copy of the book LBSC’s Shop Shed and Road off abebooks last night, along with A Beginner’s Guide to Model Steam Locomotives and Model Boilers and Boiler Making. I saw all of those in Jeff Youngs “Raising Steam” article from the May 2006 (Correct me if I’m wrong) Garden Railways.

Cheese

7

[quote user=“ElMik”]
Okay, I admire your determination. Your budget, however, might be a bit low – depending mostly upon how much you can fabricate vs having to buy.

The most important part that I would strongly recommend purchasing rather than save a few dollars trying to fabricate is a safety valve. Get a decent one (15-20psi+), not one for a “toy” engine, or you’ll end up with very poor performance.

You also didn’t specify what KIND of boiler you are looking to build.

A “pot” boiler like the Mamod uses is simplest, but very inefficient. Adding a few water tubes to the firebox area helps but it’s still wasteful.

Next up in complexity is the monotube design, this has one large internal fire tube, and is often used in gas fired locos like the Accucraft Ruby. Again adding water tubes in the main flue (in a helix) will help efficiency.

Smithies? This is basically a pot boiler with a few largish fire tubes added.

More involved yet is a multitubular design, with or without a crownsheet and wet sides…this is the most prototypical, complex, and yes - expensive way to go. Many tiny boilers built this way are used on expensive coal fired models

Which brings up the question WHAT are you planning on firing the thing WITH? The answer to this question will help you decide what your best boiler design will be. Dry fuel tablets? (expensive but easy), alcohol (aka “meths” cheap, easy, but burning spills can be a PitA), Sterno? (IMO, bleah), Butane? (burners and fuel tanks are rather complicated to build, or costly to buy), Coal? Kerosene/lamp oil? Dried camel chips?(okay, now I’m being rather silly, but you get the idea)

A few more $5 questions. What kind of cylinders? Oscillators(Wobblers)? Piston valve? Slide Valve? One cylinder or multiple? Non-reversing or what kind of reverse?

You also didn’t really indicate the time frame you have to build this beasty in. Do you have weeks? A couple months? All year?

Although it does

8

Jim, The plans are a MS word document, so you’ll need a reader program to open it. Here is the page before. http://www.panyo.com/project/plans.htm (BTW the macro for making links on this bored STILL doesna werk fer me!)

9

Thanks a lot will work on this

JIM

10

Okay Cheese, since ya didn’t like my suggestion #1 (which was cheap, simple, and easy), we’ll try again [:P]

Here’s a few more - courtesy of GR’s own Vance Bass. As you’ll notice they are more complicated, and rather more expensive

http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass/steam/drawings.htm

Of course you could always just BUY a Roundhouse Lady Anne kit and modify it to suit your tastes, but that is a rather $$ proposition, OTOH it would have almost everything you need all in one place, and they run great.

11

Cheese, There were in point of fact VERY FEW english moguls (as far as I know -only the Great Eastern Railway Company used them). that is not to say that both North British and Beyer Peacocks did not produce quite a few of the for export… LBSC’s book and “Boilers” both assume that you understand the background to the process of building a steam engine, in fact LBSC assumes the fact that you are familar with locomotives as an everyday item -which was true at the time of writing (1929). Allied to this is the fact that all the locomotive terms and measurements will be in english -and not american. For instance a torpedo is in english a submarine weapon while in american it is a locomotive foghorn. Similarly terms will be quoted in British Thermal Units -not kilo Joules. You will also have the problem that 1 Imperial Gallon is not the same as a US Gallon -and the list begins!!! Have fun and don’t be afraid to panic. Having grown up in a strict Centimetre Gramme Second environment and working everything out in Dynes -I was highly confused when I moved to England at the age of 14 and was introduced to the Imperial system, which my father (born 1919) grew up in. My copy of “Boilers” has conversion formulae scattered all over the margins. My 7 year old son has looked at them and said -“Thats a very old fashioned way of doing it Daddy!!!” All though I use SI for my work -when at home it is all in familar centimetres. My wife of cause works everything out in inches… regards ralph

12

Oh,

The Mogul I am going to build is of no prototype, just a free lanced engine. But, today I decided that an 0-6-0 Might be simpler and I want to build one heavily based on LMS and CR 0-6-0s.

Of course, it won’t be an exact replica of anything, just a coloaboration of locos I like.

I’m wondering weather Blue or a Maroon color would be best. I love blue and red, but I’m not sure.

Cheese

13

Well Cheese… Today is your lucky day -as I am a member of the Butterley Garden Railway Club. We share the same site as the Midland Counties Railway Centre. A Midland loco would be my choice although “The Cally” did some nice ones. The Great Eastern also had a blue livery if that helps! Incidently the Midland colour was originally green (Strutt Green) but was changed when a clerk ordered 200 gallons of Markeaton Red from the local paint maker by pointing at the colour chip on their board. Although the colour later came to be called Crimson Lake and used by the London Midland Scottish -around here Markeaton Red is still Midland Red -not Crimson Lake!!! I wish you luck with your project. regards ralph

14

Oh,

Thats cool. But, I have changed my mind. I will eventually build the 0-6-0 which will draw heavily from Midland Railway and Caledonian Railway Engines, but, I have decided to go a different course.

As I mentioned before, I order a copy of LBSC’s Shop and Shed Road and I have decided that I will build and engine from that book. I haven’t decided which, because I don’t know whats in there, but, I saw an engine, and 0-6-0T that was bult from an LBSC design, which was pretty nice.

So, if the plans for that engine are in that book then I will build that and paint it a Maroon Color (I’m trying to avoid blue so it won’t be mistaken as Thomas the Tank engine).

But if not then I’ll do something else. I’ll keep you posted.

Cheese

15

Hi Cheese

I note your colour choices with the influences you have chosen. you have a choice of four colours all of which will give a good believability factor.

Caledonian Blue, Midland Red, Crimson Lake of the LMS or Black.

In my own biased opinion Caledonian Blue lined out in white with polished brass steam dome looks very nice as does LMS Crimson Lake lined out in Golden Yellow with the same polished brass work.

A small point for the era you are talking about it is quite possible the cab would have been very open to the elements much like a Roundhouse Millie and if the tender variation is chosen the tender may well have only had 4 rather than 6 wheels

Polished brass work would have been normal rather than everything painted like on a lot of modern steam locomotives

In model form the open Cab has the very big advantage that you can get at the controls to drive it quite easy if you go with the 0-6-0 idea really do consider the open plan cab

regards John

16

Hmm,

An open cab. I never though of that. Sounds like a good idea. The steam locomotive dosen’t have t be a specific engine from the specific era, since a steam locomtive is a steam locomotive (forgetting the outward appearence).

I think Midland Red With a shiny brass dome would be fine. Maybe some parts from Mille, as you suggested would be jsut as well used.

Cheese

17

Hi Cheese

An open cab would be easy to make with help from you metalwork teacher.

You need a “T” shaped bit of metal the “T” arms are bent to form the cab sides and a short bit at the bottom of the “T” leg is bent back at a slight angle this is AFTER the holes for spectacles or half round visibility cut outs have been done there are several variations of wind shield only cabs.

Completely open cabs where there was only enough sides to stop the crew falling off and no wind shield where common on UK industrial locomotives this is another possibility.

I only thought of the fairly early style of loco’s because of the dates given by you in your first post.

It should be noted that properly done these early-er loco’s where very attractive with the polished copper and brass in combination with the more limited and darker colour pallet that was available at the time

It is well worth taking the time to study the styles and colours of the loco’s from this earlier time to get the best possible result for your project locomotive both engineering wise and appearance wise 1 you will get better marks & 2 it will give you pleasure long after you have built it.

Don’t rush it and when time and finance permit do build a suitable train to go with the locomotive.

But most of all enjoy the time spent researching and building the project

regards John

18

I say just buy a ruby kit and be done with it. LOL.

19

Not to be, as you “kids” say, a Buzz-Kill, but all the “designs”/kits/parts etc of locos you memtioned are not inventions, just variations, follow-ons, developments. Arguably, the Stephenson “Rocket” was the invention (at least one of the first workable locos that was patented). Now here’s my point-there is a nice model kit of it on ebay for $18.95-build it-detail it-be very knowledgeable of it’s workings and take your 95-100 points for the project…then build the live steam model you want in the timeframe you need …I haven’t built one but a month and a half to semi-scratch build a live steamer sounds tight. It’s great when you can combine what you like to do with what you have to do, but have a back up plan. Either way-Good Luck and keep us posted-Mark

20

No,

I can’t buy a locomotive. I have to cronstuct it myself for a project at school. If I use a locomotive I bought, then that would be called cheating. Sorry, but I’m pressing on.

Cheese