Do you need a decoder for both A and B unit on these?
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-31417
Magnus
yes, if you want to run them seperate - ie an ABB or ABBB or AA set.
no if you plan on running them as an AB set permanently (ie connect with a drawbar)
I was going to run them AB only.
So I guess one decoder. But wich decoder fits in there and which one is recomended. No sound.
Magnus
Maybe I’m missing something, but if both units are powered, the only way you could do it with a drawbar and one decoder would be to run one pair of wires from the wheel contacts in the “decoder-less” unit to the decoder, then another pair back to power the motor in the “decoder-less” unit. If the B-unit was a dummy, then a single decoder in the A-unit would be fine. But, if the B-unit is powered and has no decoder, or other modifications, it will try to take off at light speed as soon as you set it on the track because of the constant 12V across the rails.
Back in the old days of Command Control, “hard-wiring” two units together was the only way to go because the decoder took up all the room in a dummy unit, so you had to run wires from the dummy over to the motor in the powered unit. Since prototype locomotives have a number of hoses/cables running between them when they are in multiple-unit configuration, the presence of a few wires running between the two models could add a little bit of realism.
Today, however, the easiest way (and perhaps cheapest, depending on how valuable your time is to you) is to go ahead and purchase two decoders, install them, then run the locomotives together using the consisting function of your DCC system.
Tom
If both units are powered you will need separate decoders in each one. If the B unit is a dummy, you will need only one decoder. In that case, the decoder could be installed in the B unit if you intend to permanently connect them with a drawbar, but you will also have to run wires between the two units for the electrical pickups, lights, and motor because the B unit will probably not have pickup wipers.
This is NOT correct.
See Tom’s post further above - it is technically correct.
If you want to go to the trouble of setting it up with one decoder for both, which will involve less money out of pocket, but considerably more time, I would use one of the higher current Lenz decoders, with overload protection.
|
cacole wrote: |
|
If both units are powered you will need separate decoders in each one. |
This is NOT correct…Nigel
Nigel…could you explain how using a separate decoder in each powered unit is incorrect. I’ve been doing this for years and hope I haven’t been getting ripped off by various Digitrax and Lenz dealers.
Mac
It is true that you don’t need to decoder both if drawbared/4 wired together. The added cost of the second decoder is really worth saving all the aggrevation of the hardwiring of the B unit though. You also have the ability to break the consist when hostling in the yard w/o the 0 5 0 of the AB set and using care not to screw up the connection/ drawbar.
Magnus, on a note about the B&O numbering. I have no idea why Proto has picked 82,84 in the A and AX. Generally w/ the early B&O complicated numbering these units would have been the second AB portion of an ABBA set. The typical no. of the 4 unit set would be 82, 82X, 82A and 82AX. If you are only running them AB it’s up to you, but when these sets were broken, B&O would normally assign a temparary number, as not to have 2 #82 sets. Usually the separated units temp# would be 83 and 83X. This is one reason the first F3 PhII were even numbered only and these are geared for passenger service only. The later Ph4 odd numbered were generally freight service.
If you model after 1957 none of these numbers apply as B&O renumbered to the 4 digit.
The Proto 1000s run decent but the detail is not up to others.
BTY, I have had absolutely no luck on the Walther’s heavyweight baggage. Not one dealer at our show ha
Thanks bogp40.
Perhaps I will run them as the ABBA. I have two other sets of AB coming already so they could make head units then. I’m modelling around 50-55. I have not decided on the exact year yet.
Did the B&O ever mix engines, for example E8 AB and then F7 BA in ABBA consist?
I was thinking of using the Digitrax dh123ps decoder since it’s cheap. Anyone who have any opinions about that decoder?
Thanks for checking out the bagage cars. I wonder when they will be released. They are pretty much the only passenger car(heavyweight) by walthers that I do not have yet and it bugs me. I would like five or something of them.
Oh I joined the B&O group.
Magnus
One more thought occurred to me overnight, but I’m not sure if it’s correct. Anyone with more experience is welcome to refute this idea: After installing two decoders, I believe it is possible to avoid messing with the consisting function by giving both decoders the same address. Since the A and B units should be mechanically identical, and assuming the decoders are identical, they should respond to their respective decoders pretty much in concert. As long as any programming changes are made to both decoders, this should effectively keep them “MU’ed”.
Tom
lillen,
I have a herd of F7s on my BRVRR layout. Many of them have a Digitrax DH123 decoder in them. In fact, I often use the DH123 for motor control in sound equipped locos (both decoders have the same address). Some have TCS T1 decoders. Both give satisfactory results.
As mentioned above, you can give the same address to more than one decoder and I do it often with AB or AA sets that are usually run together. The trick is to speed match them ie: speed, acceleration, breaking/momentum etc. independantly. Once you are satisfied with your match, you can then reset the address as desired. The drawback is, if you want to run them independantly and at the same time, you will have to reset an address.
Good luck!
potlatcher,
Yes, you can give two locomotives the same address and they will run together if they closely match their speeds when running individually. Usually two locomotives from the same manufacturer and type, i.e., the Proto 1000 EMD F3 A-B set that is under discussion, will run closely enough to use only one address for both. You can even change CV29 so one runs forward and the other backward, so you can have an A-A set running back to back.
You can also use only one decoder to run both engines by interconnecting them with wiring, but with the cost of high-quality decoders being only around $15 today, I prefer to use two separate decoders and avoid the hassle of the additional wiring that is involved.
WOW…this thread has some excellent information. Thanks everyone.
Now that you are a member of the B&O group, It may be good to post your intentions for your use and numbering of these sets. I am in no way an expert on the B&O F units. A good amount of my knowledge has come from all the historians from the group.
The moderator, James Mischke along with so many other regulars are the life blood of the Historic Society themselves.