In answer to the original question, I had a NYC A-B-A that I bought about 2004 and sold a number of years ago and wish i hadn’t. They are well enough detailed for my aspirations at the price I paid for them which I think was about what the same that you are being asked for today. Running wise they were fantastic, so recommended.
The P1K RDCs are easy to convert to DCC. Since the decoder I used had 4 functions, I also installed 2 LEDs in the passenger compartment for interior lighting.
In a world of shorty rubber band drive Athearn RDCs, and the shorty ATT (not the phone company) RDCs, the P1K was king. Then along came Rapido…
–Randy
Grab it for $116, excellent price for new. Proto 1000s run terrific, even if they run a little fast (on DC anyway). I own an A and an A/B. A little less detail is not a problem for me and you don’t have to be super careful about breaking lift rings and rungs. After awhile mine started to go thump thump down the track. LL sent me free new axles before Walthers came along, an easy replacement. Enjoy. -Rob
The loco arrived on the mail today. All of the couplers were broken, even though it was “new old stock”. Luckily, I had some kadee 158s, so i followed the directions on the manual to change the couplers. The tabs that held the coupler lids broke off (those things are ridiculously fragile), so I glued them on. It didn’t run very smoothly compared to the other locos I have. It’s hard to say, but it wasn’t worth $116 in my opinion… I’ve had bad experiences with life like protos before, so I should have known…
That is sad to hear.
All the couplers were broken on both locomotives? That is very unusual. Were they packed well?
I have many Life Like Proto locomotives, and a couple Walthers Proto, and except for craked gears on one GP, no issued at all.
I do not have the Erie Builts, but GP7/9, SD7, FA1, E8s, and the FM switcher.
-Kevin
Look at the wheels to see how worn they are. This will tell you if it is new or not.
You want to upgrade to current Kadee or E Z Mate or Walthers Proto couplers anyway. If you glued down the coupler lids you may come to regret doing so.
You’re talking 5 minutes “work” and less than $5 additional cost to do the upgrade most of us would do right away anyway.
Anything that old is going to have some dried out lube on its metal worm gears. The plastic driven gears are going to be dry. Get yourself some Labelle oil, pop the gear retaining covers off the trucks and drop some Labelle in there with the locomotive upside down. Snap the covers back on but leave your locomotive upside down for an hour or so. If you have the capability put power to the wheels while it’s upside down to run the trucks. The Labelle will then also soften any dried out grease on the worm gears. Some go to the trouble of taking the trucks apart and cleaning the gears but I don’t think that’s necessary. Then run on track for an hour or so varying speeds and directions. I’m positive that will cure the running issues (make sure the wheels are clean).
Metal worm gears aren’t going to be affected by stale lubrication issues since they run only on plastic driven gears. Labelle lubricates and protects those plastic gears just fine. All the driven gears can be lubricated from below.
This worm gear was in a new old stock L-L FA2 I bought about two years ago. Still in original shrink wrap.
Proto_gear-3 by Edmund, on Flickr
I fully anticipate the need to strip these engines down and give them a thorough “going over”. I never expected to take a fifteen or twenty-year old locomotive out of the package, place it on a track and expect it to purr like a well-oiled machine.
You couldn’t do this with an automobile either.
Proto_gear-9 by Edmund, on Flickr
These worm bearings were corroded and the lubrication had reacted with some alloys in the bronze bearings to form both the oxide you see and it turned the lube into a very effective resin-like pitch which locked the shaft quite effectively. That glazed lube is just like amber.
All 8 of the axle gears had to be replaced (as I expected). Lots of this Life-Like stock has been shuffled around, stored in cold, or very hot and damp climates. Many of the boxes I’ve seen show signs of being hauled around for years, probably to and from dozens of train shows.
I’m sorry to hear of your disappointment.
Regards, Ed
A possible moral: if you choose (or find yourself required to) glue on a coupler lid, be SURE to use a choice of glue that you can ‘reverse’ easily when necessary.
If cyanoacrylate, be sure you can apply a correct solvent safely, without damaging other parts or paint (or lungs or DNA…). If thermoplastic glue, be sure you have safe means to heat just the bonded area to release it and not warp things. If the bond needs to be cut or scraped, be careful to apply the hold-down glue only in the areas you can reach, or restore if damaged during the “R&R”.
A little foresight and forethought will probably pay dividends down the line…
Incidentally, to ‘second’ what Ed is saying: whether or not you plan to run careful lubrication of the appropriate multiple types in a locomotive, you have to clean the old grease and dirt out of the mechanism first ‘no matter what’. I disagree with lastspikemike a little in principle, in that I think it’s important to remove old hardened grease and potential corrosion from mechanism parts before applying any sort of new lubricants or solvents to be ‘worked in over time’ to loosen 'er up or do an analogue of wear-in testing. Even a few minutes of running one of those plastic gears against crud in a worm may cause irremediable tooth damage, which will probably NOT subsequently wear or polish out in use.
I won’t say it’s not ‘better’ to just relube instead of not doing anything – but I’d surely want to tear down far enough to get all the old dirt and crap out of a ‘new to me’ driveline, and check to be sure everything was aligned and not warped or cracked, before doing any extensive testing or ‘break-in running’. And that’s what I’d recommend the OP do with these two units before he condemns them
I am much more curious about how the couplers were broken.
Unless the packaging was completely destroyed, it should have been able to protect the couplers from damage.
How banged up were these model when they arrived?
-Kevin
Makes me question the “new old stock” status with broken couplers. They did come with absolutely horrible ‘compatible’ couplers as did all my P2K locos, that have a tendency to jam wide open and never move back, but I don;t use anything but real Kadees on anything, because I have yet to find any of the ‘compatibles’ that work as well as they do - and if the Walthers ones are supposed to be “just as good”, well, they are no cheaper so why switch?
I have yet to have a bad P2K loco, and I have a bunch. Cracked gears don’t count, it’s $2 of Athearn parts to fix. Nver had an Erie Built, but did have a DL109 P1K, which was also fine - but that was purchased back when they first came out, it wasn’t something sitting around for 15-20 years.
My stuff has all been packed away for 7 years or so at this point, except for a couple of locos I have on my bench (2 recent purchases of old locos, 2 recent purchases of new runs, and one of my older ones), so I expect to be going over each of them before placing them back in operation if I ever get my layout built far enough to run trains.
–Randy
Me too. As I mentioned before in a different thread, the last few locomotives I have purchased on eBay have been destroyed in transit due to poor packaging by the seller.
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I don’t want to start a new thread for this question.
Can anyone verify that the UNDECORATED Proto 1K Erie Built locomotives were ever made? They were mentioned, but I have never seen one, and I have had an eye out for many many years.
-Kevin
Depends what broken couplers means also. Dropped out springs? Non functioning knuckle due to it being forced too far open? Lifelike original couplers should be replaced whether they seem to work or not. They don’t work well even if undamaged and even if you find then acceptable to start with it won’t be long beifre they drive you nuts. Walthers newer Proto couplers are quite nice and work very well.
NIB may not mean never taken out of the packaging. It should mean not run for any length of time.
The coupler should not break while the locomotive is actually resting in the box.
Using CA “reverser” can be tricky. Bin there, done that, got the fingerprint to prove it.
As far as lubricating the worm gears goes so far so good with me ignoring the worm gear itself. Perhaps just luck. I’ve got my eye (wallet actually) on an C Liner AB Proto 1000 set which will not run no how no way. I bought the one of five that ran and only oiled the driven gears. Really quite a lovely locomotive. I’d like to run an ABA set and so far only have an A. Waiting for the LHS to diagnose and repair one or of more of these.
Ditto a couple of Spectrum Shays with split driven gears. No parts, at least not yet.
Yes. All the couplers were broken on both locomotives. I wonder why they were broken because they were packed very well and the erie-builts were in very good condition except for the broken couplers.
SeeYou190,
Yes. All the couplers were broken on both locomotives. I wonder why they were broken because they were packed very well and the erie-builts were in very good condition except for the broken couplers.
They had a bit of dust on them, but it was not too bad.
The boxes were a bit banged up, but the inside was almost intact.
Non functioning knuckle due to it being forced too far open. I agree. Almost all my Lifelike Proto locomotives had broken couplers.
That is not how eBay defines new.
Ebay is very clear on this. Something listed in the Toy & Hobby category can only be defined as “new” if it has never been removed from the original packaging.
Using “NIB”, “NOS”, “New-Test-Run-Only”, or any other deformation of the term “new” is a violation of eBay terms and conditions if the item has EVER been out of the packaging.
All other items in the T&H category must be listed as “used” and cannot use any form of “new” in the description.
I report offending items all the time.
From the eBay website:
Since the couplers were damaged not in transit, Union Pacific 8444 has solid grounds to request a refund if the terms “NIB” or “new” were used to describe the items.
-Kevin