Proto 2000 GP38-2 Issues

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

I’m never one to rant, but this is ridiculous. [soapbox]

For years now, I’ve heard nothing but praise for Proto 2000 units. This weekend, I went out and bought my first one, with high expectations. I got a GP38-2, Conrail 8227. The detail is great, and it ran smoothly and quietly on DC.

According to the instructions for converting to DCC, you have to replace the lights. I figured that, while more trouble than necessary, this wouldn’t be too much of a problem. I don’t have spare lights on hand, so I would just have to leave them disconnected until I got around to it. Not a big deal.

I ran into my first “major” problems when I tried to take the shell off to install a decoder. The instruction sheet said to remove the coupler boxes and the “two small black screws shown in the exploded view of the chassis” and to “NOT remove the large brass screws.” Umm, ALL of the screws are painted black… How am I supposed to know which two they’re talking about, since there are six screws that are all small and painted black?! [^o)]

After a quick Google search, I was able to see which screws needed to come out. I took them out and tried to lift the shell straight up as the instructions said to. It started to come off, but then got caught on something. The next thing I knew, a few detail parts had been ripped off the frame, and the shell was free of the chassis.

However, the Google search revealed to me that Digitrax makes a DH165L0 decoder, specifically made for P2K locos, that makes replacing the lights unnecessary.
Kinda.
There are four bulbs in the locomotive, two for the headlights, and two for the numberboards. The special decoder works for the headlight bulbs, but the numberboard bulbs are different and will not be fixed. Additionally, the numberboard bulbs are improperly wired and will damage the decoder. So, not only will these bulbs need to be replaced, but they will have to be completely rewired.

While none of these issues are the end of the world,

2

Ahhh…the GP-38-2 indocrination via the “mystery” screws on the bottom that drives everybody nuts the first time. That said, I think you’ll be very happy with the units once you get them up and running Joe. For whatever reason they seem to be available at very low cost, I think less than $70 in my case. Not a bad price given the detail level. I’ll also say that I have two and they are my best runners. Reiliable, rock solid work horses.

Lance

Visit Miami’s Downtown Spur at www.lancemindheim.com

3

Did I set my expectations too high on a product that I have had no past experience with? Or should a “high-quality product” such as the P2K GP38-2 have better quality control than it does? Does anyone agree with me, or am I just going crazy over something insignificant?

Joe,IMHO you’re more of a (if you will) victim of a outdated none DCC ready drive-IMHO any time you have to change light bulbs the locomotive is not DCC ready…Also the instruction sheet does lack detailed information on shell removal…

However,in the end run you got a highly detailed locomotive that requires a special decoder.Not a bad locomotive its just aggravating.

4

Congratulations, you scored the Trifecta! Actually, these issues have been discussed on the forums before and you could have saved some time if you researched the P2K GP38-2.

The other screws are located just under the trucks near the gas tank. You need to turn the trucks slightly to see them.

The bell probably popped off when you removed the shell, since it tends to catch on the frame when lifting the shell.

I don’t run dcc, but I read where the numberboard bulbs are wired incorrectly and the best fix is just to remove them.

Have you also discovered that the motor screeches horribly and that the long hood and access doors are too short from the filter box aft throwing the dimensional accuracy of the model way off? No?, then it sound like you have discovered only three five major problems, but, of course, you just bought the thing.

However, if you manage to locate the screws in less than an hour, move the shell slightly so the bell clears, snip the wires to the lightboard bulbs or run dc, get the newer runs of the models that don’t seem to have the screeching motors, and don’t care about the dimensional flaw; I think they’re darned good models. They do run very smoothly and the paint and detail are very nice.

I think when they came out they were quite expensive, then quickly dropped to about 50 bucks. They’re not made anymore so you can only buy new-old-stock or used models.

5

Trainworld had these for $49 last year. but now the price went up. I’m kicking myself for not buying a pair at the time. Same thing happened to the P2K SD45’s as well…I think they were $29. If anyone knows where the GP38’s are still $49, i’d love to know.

6

I’ve never had a problem with details getting ripped offf when removing the shells of my P2K locos. They ARE somewhat delicate, with scale and near-scale size items so you do need to be gentle. I liked the old way of packing them better - shell already off, but that uses more packing material and a larger box. The screws they tell you NOT to remove are fairly obvious because they are much larger than the ones you need to remove. It can be a pain getting at them, but you don;t actually have to put them back on afterwards, the couplers will hold the shell on just fine.

As for DCC Ready - well, there is no such thing. It is a meaningless term. Lots of other locos say “DCC Ready” but you don;t just plug a decoder in. Most P2K locos don;t have those number board lights, so the DH165L0 just does drop in. It’s not that big a deal to add resistors and wire the bulbs to an extra function output ont he DH165, there are 6 of them available. I hard wire all my P2K locos and repalce the bulbs with LEDs.

–Randy

7

Yeah, that $49 price was a few years ago. I haven’t seen a new one offered for less than $75 for a long time.

I own several. I like them, but they have some issues.

8

Thank you everyone for your responses!

As for the price, I bought it at my LHS for $75, and MSRP was listed at $135. They had Athearn units for $65, so I decided to bite the bullet and spend the extra ten bucks to see what P2K was all about. It was sitting out of the box in a display case, but did have a box and was in perfect condition when I left the store.
I also looked on Ebay when I got home from the store for a price comparison, and all of the Conrail P2K GP38-2’s were above the price I paid, so it seems that I got a pretty good deal on it.

In regard to the broken details, it was in fact the bell, and one of the air tanks that had come off. The bell was what caught on the chassis, and I think it was my thumb that took out the air tank. Fortunately, these are easy fixes.

I did not notice the dimensional issue, and there was no screeching (at least, not yet), but I’ll look into those.

I’m going to go ahead and buy the recommended decoder since this seems like it will be the easiest way of doing the installation. I’ll end up disconnecting the numberboard lights, and may or may not replace those at a later time.

While requiring more effort and frustration than I originally planned/hoped for, I do see great potential in this unit and am looking forward to getting it up and running!

Thank you again, everyone, for your help and input!

9

I know this is an old post but I’ve worked on models for a while now usually without much issue. But I purchased two P2K GP38-2 locos and I removed the screws I normally do (which include the ones mentioned above) and the shell doesn’t move at all. What might I be missing?

Thanks for any assistance.

10

There are only 4 screws, the coupler boxes screws, and then the screws that can only be accessed through the trucks. You might have something caught on the inside…

Hey, wait… this is an old thread

11

I know that this is an old thread, but as contributions here last forever I felt I should comment when I noticed you say “the long hood and access doors are too short from the filter box aft throwing the dimensional accuracy of the model way off”, but the review of this (P2K) model on this site by Jim Hediger in Dec 2004 says “This model matches the GP38-2 drawing in the Model Railroader Cyclopedia: Vol. 2, Diesel Locomotives (Kalmbach Publishing Co.).” You cannot both be right! Jim’s review also says that “It’s made from all new tooling and is unrelated to the firm’s earlier train set model.” I have seen an earlier Life-Like GP38-2 and it is a train-set quality loco, but you seem to be talking about the P2K. Jim also says “Three different long hoods are used to assemble the body shells, and many alternate parts provide the details to match a specific prototype.” I wonder if you are comparing your model with the corresponding prototype? I have the pair for the SCL and was very happy with them, but now you have planted a seed that may disturb my sleep with bad dreams! I would be glad to know the truth - or perhaps not!!

12

Yep. It is an old thread, but i found it strange that none of the posters mentioned replacing the axle gears in those units. They are notorious for having cracked axle gears. The original posterwas complaing about the costs involved in changing the lights after putting in a decoder. Then imagine his thoughts when he discovered in a while the dreaded “clicking” started.