I have recently received the Proto E7 AA Hiawatha locomotives. They perform fine except that the two units MUed will not run faster than 62 smph. They won’t run faster separately either. The factory setting for CV 5 is 0. I have tried adjusting the V mid to 128 and V high CV to 255 but to no effect. If anything they run slower. These are my first Proto Diesels and I don’t know if this slow speed performance is typical or not. Any ideas? Must I be content with a 62 MPH Hiawatha. Maybe some Athern FP7s would speed up the show a bit…
I am curious about this as well. I have been speed matching one for a freind and I was also concerned about the top end speed.
I can’t offer and direct help, but, I have 6 Proto2000 E8’s (exact same drive) that are all DC. They run a perfect 80 smph at 13.6 volts using an Aristo Craft Train Engineer throttle.
So it may well be a DCC/decoder issue, not the loco. What voltage is your DCC system putting on the rails? I would think it should be above 14 volts to get full speed from these units.
Sheldon
You may be on target with the track voltage thing. When I turn on my system my DT400 throttle indicates a track voltage of 10.5. I may need to open up the DB150s and screw up the track voltage a bit.
Do you have the scale switch on the DB150 to HO? It should be putting out about 14 volts.
David B
I know that Life-Like pre-Walthers had to make some changes in their RDC’s because people complained how slow they ran. The newer ones run faster.
At one time…well, for a long time…it was hard to get a locomotive to run really slow, and guys were content to have their trains whizzing around the layout. In recent years, high quality engines have come out that allow us to run very slowly and smoothly, so it could be LL went with that angle at the cost of some top end speed.
BTW since our layouts are so small compared to the real thing, what’s the hurry to get from A to B?? I generally run at about half the prototype speed. It’s all relative, a passenger train at 35 MPH looks fast next to an ore train going 10 MPH.
When plugging in, or turning the system on, the voltage on the DT400 display is the Loconet voltage, not the track voltage.
Kinda funny actually, it used to be that all the complaints were that everything ran at warp speed, minimum starting speeds were too high (common to find HO locos 20 years ago that would start moving with a minimum speed of 10mph - great for switching - NOT). Now we have the problem that they don’t go fast enough. Sure the prototype might have been geared for 90mph top speed, but they seldom hit it. What’s more, unless you have a HUGE layout, and nothign less than #8 (and mostly #10) turnouts, and no curves less than 48" radius (talkign about HO scale here), even 25mph would actually be TOO FAST. So slow down, extend the apparent distance between your stations, and enjoy.
–Randy
Hi!
Is it possible the locos just need a break-in period, and/or some “lube & tune”?
Mobilman44
First of all my friend in this instance is our forum buddy Cudaken. Now we all know that Ken likes to get good performance out of his locos. In this particular case the loco is not all that new, has had plenty of running in time. I think it is just a fact that this model has particularly low top end speed. My BLI sound equipped (same QSI decoder) has a much higher top speed. The P2K is particularly sedate for some reason.
The MILW E7s were geared for 117 mph, and they got up to triple digits very often. Hiawatha was fleet of foot, you know.[;)]
Hi!
As I don’t know the original poster “from Adam”, I have no way of knowing if he is experienced with getting new locos broken in and assuring they are lubed. No offense meant in any way!
One other thought on the subject… Would it not help isolate the problem if the loco was tested in a DC mode? If it had a higher top speed, then its a DCC problem. If it ran the same, then its a loco problem or an attribute of that particular loco model.
Mobilman44
Correction to my earlier post! I knew I had this info written down, and I know better than to trust my memory (Albert Einstein said “never memorize anything you can easily look up”).
At 13.35 VDC, on pulse width modulation control with an Aristo Train Engineer, all my Proto2000 E8’s go 88 smph. Gearing options on the prototype where for 90 and 117 as I recall.
Many DC transformers have outputs well into the 14-16 volt range or higher. I prefer to stay closer to the NMRA standards. So on DC the unit has a fairly prototypical top speed.
I still suspect a decoder or DCC voltage problem/limitation regarding the OP’s problem.
Sheldon
Based on my own experience here with CudaKens E7 I don’t beleive it has anything to do with DCC track voltage. It is the only locomotive out of dozens that behaves this way. Furthermore, it runs the same way on Cuda’s layout. IMO it is loco specific and the fact that there are 2 with the same issue. Ken mentioned to me the other day that he had posed a similar question in the past and was told that these P2K units are notoriously slow.
Simon is working with my E-6 (see you Sunday Simon) and my track has 14.5 volts at the rail. The E-7 is just slow for some reason. Simon is speed matching the E-7 to a PK 2000 E-6 B unit of mine. I have 3 E-6’s and all have a top speed around 105 sMPH. I have asked this question about 2 years ago when I first got it and from what I was told by other owners, they are just slow.
I wonder if a up graded QSI decoder would speed it up. I all so don’t care for the sound either, maybe correct but just don’t like it. The E-7 takes the High Speed out of High Speed Passenger Services.
Cuda Ken
I agree, as long as the loco operates smoothly, I won’t complain. I have 2 p2k SD-7’sW/QSI ,slow, but very smooth runners,thought that was what We wanted ?
I don’t have an E7 but my P2K E8s had the typical jack rabbit extreme top end speed (as do all my P2Ks) and had to be “tuned down” to prototypical top end smph.
But, I’m with wjstix and rrinker. I’d rather have your E7 crawling nicely than looking strange moving around a typical layout at 60+ smph.
There is no mystery here. The Empire Builder F units have the same issue. This is due to Walther’s standarization on 14-to-1 gear ratios. A very poor decision for passenger locomotives. One cannot compare them to any of the prior P2K runs.
What I am going to do is regear them. What fun for something that is brand new. Makes me angry that I have to “work on” items right out of the box. Especially ones that were as expensive as these. [:(!] I might NOT be buying the 20th Century E7 units just because of this reason.
HELLO WALTHERS are YOU Listening! You don’t want me to switch to a new vendor. I can’t say exactly how much business Athearn has lost to me but it is $thousands$.
Yes. The scale switch is set to HO.
Steve B
Timetable speed on the River Sub of the Milwaukee Road, which I model, was 90 MPH until the end of Milwaukee passenger service. It was faster across the “island” between Red Wing and Hastings. On my layout I enjoy a double track mainline with No. 6 crossovers ( prototype XO speed of 10 MPH) 42" radius curves and a few 30 foot straightaways. I would be fun to let the E7s rip pass the S2 in the Eastward siding at Wabasha at 90 smph and then crank them down to extend running time between stations…
Anyway, I ain’t done fiddlin’ around yet. Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions.
I didn’t realize that the DT400 showed “Loconet” voltage and not track voltage at startup. Thanks for the info.
Steve B