Hello,
Hey I am new to the idea of accurate detailing for specific prototypes. All my modeling in the past was with the take what you get method. However I have matured in my interests. I am modeling some local railroads both past and present and want as much authinticity as I can get. The modern stuff seems relatively easy but the steam stuff I am finding to be a challange to even get started. Beyond the difficulty of buying a model that even comes close to the prototype is one thing but there are endless variations on a simple design. What is a good source for steam era detailing parts. Another thing is I am railroad illeterate when it comes to the name of certain parts so when I look in say a Walthers catalog or most places online I have absolutly no idea what I am looking for. HELP I NEED AN EDUCATION.
- Welcome to the steam modeling fraternity!
- Buy a copy of Kalmbach’s “Steam Locomotive Cyclopedia”: http://kalmbachcatalog.stores.yahoo.net/01001.html This book has all of the basic information steam modelers need in identifying parts, what they do, what they’re called, and where they go (in general; engines differ).
- Buy a copy of the Bowser parts catalog: http://bowser-trains.com/hoother/manual/manual.htm Bowser has the largest selection of steam detail parts available these days. Their website is pretty handy too, but the catalog is simpler to dig through.
- Buy a copy of the Precision Scale HO scale steam detail parts catalog: http://www.precisionscaleco.com/ Pre Scale is the other large steam parts manufacturer, and makes a lot of stuff that Bowser doesn’t. You have to use both resources at the same time to cover all the bases!
Those three resource books will give you an excellent head start in teaching yourself the ins and outs of steam detailing and prototype practices, and will show you 80% of the steam detail parts that are on the market. For the other 20% of parts you’ll have to start digging through the offerings of the smaller guys, like Greenway and PIA:
http://www.greenwayproducts.com/a_brassdetails.shtml
http://pweb.jps.net/~pia/index.htm
You’ll also have to learn how to scratchbuild your own parts in both plastic and brass, since there are some things that NOBODY makes. I’m not talking about a beartrap stack used on three steam engines between 1919 and 1923 in Nowheresville, SD; I’m talking about major components of engines made in the hundreds and used by the biggest railroads in the country.
I agree completely with Ray’s recommendations. Buy the books and research your subjects. And don’t start with a project that’s too ambitious: small successes will breed greater confidence than large failures. [swg]
Start with a simple detailing project like this (the same loco that Ray started with in his photos)
Move on to something a litlle more involved: (same loco again)
And keep developing your skills:
Here’s my latest project, for a friend, although I can’t show too much, as he will be the first to see the completed job:
One other resource that you may find useful is the many dealers in prototype photographs: working from photos (not internet photos, either) is invaluable in not only getting the details right, but also in seeing how things go together, and their relationship to one another. It’s another facet of the research that you may find enjoyable and it will definitely enhance your modelling skillls.
Wayne
One thing to be aware of when working from photos is that the exact placement of pipes and fittings on steam locos changed with every trip to the back shop. Two photos of the same engine twenty years apart may well look like two different engines. Locomotives of the same class, manufactured by the same builder in a single production run, ceased to be identical the first time they passed through the owner’s shops.
I am looking forward to scratch-detailing three JNR 9600 class 2-8-0s. In 1964 there were over 400 of the old workhorses in service, most of which varied widely in such details as air brake plumbing and the presence (and design) of front end smoke deflectors. Getting three of them right, and with appropriate numbers, is going to take some research! (In builder’s photos they look clean and mean. By 1964 they were festooned with piping and had air tanks stuck in odd places - still looked mean, but hardly clean!)
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
lol thanks for the welcome i think,
I dont know if I feel better or worse, just kidding thanks for the resource info I will be sure to do that since I will be modeling several of the old guys. My project is way beyond my layout which is a modern shortline in North Idaho. I am researching all the railroads that have operated in North Idaho for both pleasure and for a book I am writing. My two hobbies blended the day I decided to model each of the prototypes many of which will simply be display pieces.
I have already found what all of you say is true about the variety of differences even on the same loco as time passes. The current project will be a baldwin 2-8-0 made in 1908 for the Idaho and Washington Northern. First none of the available locos look anything like the one modeled (see photo). I have seen three photos of this same loco and all three look like different beasts. The biggest change coming when The Milwaukee bought the whole line and obviously revamped the loco for their needs. One other problem is the I&WN had a very impressive shop way out of porportion for the size of their operation. Read into that they tinkered alot.
That I guess is why we love steam so much no two are the same and the research is the best part of the battle
again thanks
how do I get the photo on their
Nut, no steamer ever survived a trip into the shop for overhaul and emerged looking exactly as it had when it stuck its nose in the door.
It hasn’t been too long past - ten, maybe fifteen years - that one of the hobby magazines responded to an inquiry from a Pennsy modeler. This individual was assembling a PRR I1 loke from Bowser and a photograph that he had acquired showed a location of an appliance different from Bowser’s stock model. His photograph was undated and his question was did his photograph show the original location for this appliance or a repositioned location. The magazine responded that these questions could probably be answered by the PRR Technical Society which he would be well-served to join.
There is not, I am sure, an Idaho and Northern Washington Technical Society but there is one for the Milwaukee Road and you would probably be well-served to join it.
Ok i’m taking notes, thanks all.
What I know right now is the loco I am trying to duplicate is such
Baldwin G-6e 4-6-0 ten wheeler built 1907 with 19x26 cylindars and 63 drivers ( I am assuming this means the 6 drive wheels are 63")
With that said I have one good photo of this Black Beauty. They owned five of them and they were originally bought for passenger service(this is why I chose it becuase my modeling will concentrate on their passenger service) but became their do everything work horses even though they had larger 2-8-0 consolidations.
Where do i start?
she is handsome dont you think.
Easy approach, use the Bachman Spectrum 4-6-0. The tender and running gear is close, as is the cab.
Harder approach, substitue a MDC/Roundhouse straight boiler. You will probably have to swap the air compressor to the enginee’s side and replace the headlight with a brass casting. Roundhouse dome and sandbox on their older engines are pretty close in shape.
Hardest approach, scratchbuild a biler out of brass or plastic to replace the Spectrum boiler.
Dave H.
I was thinking about this and they are pretty darn close but I don’t like the boiler I think it would bug me to not have it straight, and as for the tender the one on the 52" spectrum looks to be right its smaller than the one one that comes with the 63" version. So it would seem to me that swaping tenders wouldnt be to tall an order if I can get ahold of one without having to buy a whole other locomotive or swap them and sell the other tender with the other engine and sell it to someone who isnt picky.
The boiler is another matter. I think I could handle swaping it out for a straight one.
It would be a little more complicated than a straight swap. The spectrum has a weight cast into the frame that extends up into the boiler. The Roundhouse engine the weight is the boiler. So it will take some significant surgery to get the Roundhouse boiler on the Spectrum running gear. You will also have to fabricate some different supports and attachment points near the firebox. Not that it can’t be done, just don’t get the impression it will be a straight up, drop on exchange. You will get to spend some quality time with a Dremel tool and grinder or a milling machine. You will also may want to get an older boiler, since they had straight running boards and the newer boilers have the running boards taper in.
Dave H.
What would be involved in just removing the tapered section of the spectrum boiler and splicing in a straight piece another website showed a guy doing exactly that sort of thing because he needed to make a shorter tapered(larger) section and a longer straight(smaller) section or as your other idea suggests fabricating a whole new boiler.
are the roundhouse and spectrum boilers the same length. I am a newbie and others have suggested I thinking starting small would be best. Am I biting of more than I can chew?
My way of thinking is if it isnt as authintic as possible it shouldnt be done.
Here is a picture of the Spectrum 4-6-0 frame, the Roundhouse boiler and the Spectrum boiler. Note the split frame of the frame which goes all the way to the front of the boiler. Note that the Roundhouse boiler is SOLID in that area.
Here is the Roundhouse boiler sitting on the Spectrum frame. I have lined up the smokestack with the cylinders. Nother the roundhouse boiler is shorter than the Spectrum engine so the “stretch” can be hidden in the cab.
Dave H.
Thanks Dave,
That is very useful information and looks as if I could pull it off. I have been a modeler of sorts for years and have kitbash all sort of model cars so I think I can at least attempt what your showing. Now here is the next question. Can a person pick up a round house boiler with out buying the locomotive say straight from roundhouse, I know I can get Walthers parts for their equipment and would assume I can buy a boiler from them. Looks as if a new Spectrum locomotive is in my future I see you can pick them up on Ebay reasonably priced at least under the $175 list price.
Thanks for all the help and I intend on continuing this thread to maybe work me through some rough spots.
You can also buy tenders separately from Bachmann, with or without circuit boards.
Wayne
I agree with using the Bachmann 4-6-0 as a starting point, but I wouldn’t bother with using the old Roundhouse boiler. The plastic shell is molded around a metal weight, and it’ll be a real pain to try to mill it out sufficiently to fit onto the Bachmann drive train.
A better alternative would be to cut the Bachmann firebox and smokebox off and splice in a new, scratchbuilt plastic boiler. PVC works well for this, as does Plastruct ABS and styrene tubing. I’ve been playing around with this technique for a while, and it should work well.