I am modeling a freelanced railroad so I can make my own operating rules if I choose but I would like to follow prototype practices as closely as possible. I have two questions that I will post in separate threads.
Suppose my towns are from west to east, A, B, C, D, and E. Towns A and E are division points. A is represented by the western staging yard will E is a modeled division point with a staging yard to the east of that to represent the next division. Assume town D is located very close to town E. If the prototype railroad had a shipment to be delivered to town D, would they ever place it in the eastbound through train for division point E and then back haul it in the westbound local to be spotted at its destination in town D. Or would it be more prototypical to place it in the eastbound local to be spotted by that crew. Would it matter that the destination is a facing point spur for an eastbound local but a trailing point for the westbound local?
Totaly dependent on two factors:
1 source
2 size of the railroad.
As an example a priority load blocked in Chicago on the PRR for say Paoli might very well be put on a hotshot to Philadelphia and back delivered to Paoli. BUT on a shortline or a small railroad I doubt it.
Where does the local originate?
If the local runs from E to B and back to E, then a thru freight would carry the car to E.
If the local runs A to E and E back to A (same day or next day), then it would go either to A or E, but not both. If the switch is such that only a train going from E to A could spot it, then the car would probably go to E for the local on the E to A trip.
If the local runs A to D and return then the car would come out of A.
Both. Depends on the amount of traffic destin for D.
For only a couple loads a Class 1 is likely to run by D to E, and have a local crew deliver it from E to D.
If there is alot of different traffic for D, the railroad may decide add a D block to the train, and have a crew based at D to serve the customers.
If there is one large customer at D, with it’s own switching crew, the road crew may set out a large block of cars at D, and let the customer do his own switching.
Thanks to all for the excellent input. It sounds to me like there are a number of prototypical ways to accomplish the same thing and each railroad would do it there way. Now I need to choose the one that will be best for me. Prototypes would do it the way they thought was the most effecient. As modelers, we want the same thing but we also want to do things in a way that’s interesting as well as prototypical.
To avoid a back-haul the prototype might set out a “hot” car at the consignee’s town w/o spotting it (if it were spotted the road crew would get road switcher rate of pay for the entire trip). The local would then spot the car in the appropriate place when it got into town. The BN (and earlier, the NP) ran a train called the Highball from Spokane to Lewiston. It would set out cars at towns along the way for loading and the local stationed at Pullman would then do all the spotting and set Spokane cars to be picked up by the Highball on it’s return trip.
How far apart are A and E? How many industries are located between A and E? Is there a yard at point C? The answers to these questions will help the prototypical railroaders like myself tell you how it would normally be done in the real world.
Since you say D and E are fairly close it would most like be a local that ran from point E to D or C working all the industries along the way to C and back to E… that’s if a crew would be able to normally do this in 8 hours.
Everyone’s forgotten the question the real railroads would have asked (and still ask today): what direction is the industry switch pointing?
A car to be spotted at an industry with a switch in the wrong direction (which would require a lengthy runaround move) would have likely been run all the way to the next division point (or sub division point), to be backhauled by a local switch run that would have the switch facing the “right” direction. Or, if the town was large enough and had an area where the car could be set out (but not spotted), the car would have been left for a local heading in the other direction.
Remember, during the steam era yard switching was one of the most expensive things a railroad did on a daily basis. Cars weren’t “preblocked” as we modelers think. Cars heading “west” would be shoved onto the same train heading “west”. Once a car got near it’s final destination, it was either set out by a manifest train for a local switcher to handle, or dropped off at an area yard, to be preblocked into a local’s train. Even then, it was usually up to the local’s crew to actually shuffle the cars in their trains around into some sort of logical order (which was usually done at the first large town they encountered). Because of all this “car confusion”, cars were spotted all over the place for other train crews to handle, so long as the idea behind the move was increased effiencicy and making the job easier for everyone.
Orsonroy said:
“Even then, it was usually up to the local’s crew to actually shuffle the cars in their trains around into some sort of logical order (which was usually done at the first large town they encountered).”
In many cases that is not correct. It was very common for the labor agreements to require that cars on locals had to be blocked in station order (or the crew got a penalty payment or could refuse the train).
Don’t forget that also during the steam days and days of 5 man crews, flying switches probably were quite common. Also, they had 16 hours to do their work as opposed to the 12 we are only allowed now.
In my experinces with working on railroads today, I think the only people who care which way the switch is are the guys on the crew spotting that car. Today most locals do not just go one way and terminate, they usually do a turn, meaning they will elave point A work customers between A and C, then run around their train and work customers coming back to A.
In the real world I don’t think the switch points amout to a lot unless it is a lot of cars. My uncle was an engeneer on the C&O/CSX he has told me of times they would spot a car in what I believe he called a flying spot or drop. They would get the train moving, pulling toward the point. Uncouple moving train before the point accelerate the loco through the switch. Throw the switch for the rooling car to go into sideing. Apply the car brake to slow & stop the car where desired. This would be difficult in model railraoding if noy impossible
Another option that i have seen in action around altoona is to block the cars with the facing points in back and trailing points in back with a locomotive at the front and one in the rear. this way their is never an issue of having run arounds. When i saw this done it was with a sd80mac on both sides of a ten car local. to bad the only photo i have only shows the trailing unit.
andrew
Here in Chicago the old Rock Island line is owned and operated by Metra as far as Joliet. Beyond that Iowa Interstae operates the line out to Council Bluffs and CSX has running rights as far as Ottawa, Illinois. Metra allows Iowa Interstate to run a couple of freights a day in off peak hours to their Blue Island yard. They then switch out the cars for the EJ&E yard in Joliet about one mile east of where Metra has control and backhaul them to allow Metra to maintain their schedules.
Reading the PRR Steam era lists showed that the PRR was “Indiscriminate” in consists. Example Train BP-2 from Philadelpha to Baltimore will have two blocks…
Block 1- Baltimore (Canton Street, President Street and I think there was another street but cannot remember)
Block 2- All traffic for Washington DC this also includes traffic for AC&O, SAL, RF&P and beyond.
If I recall the document (Will seek it out and link to it soon) they stated that there was a certain time the train will depart and arrive so that the shippers have to be loaded & ready. Another mark on the paper showed that the consist was indiscriminate.
This was for a manifest train. The PRR Yard will have two tasks once the train arrived in Baltimore. Breaking this thing up and generating local trains and those going on to DC and beyond.