Has anyone ever had any problems taking pictures of track and near track objects due to security concerns? I live in North Carolina and travel to west virgina a lot for family. I want to model a modern railway based loosely on the state port in Wilmington NC, a small rail yard near where I live and the river and railroads near Front Royal VA. I just wanted to know if one else has ever run in to problems before go start taking prototype pictures and land in jail as a terrorist suspect :-S
I have taken photos of trains, yards, bridges and other sice since 1955. In all those years I have been aproached by security or police 10 times and each was since 9-11. All ten times I was on public property and not on railroad rightaway. I was questioned briefy and my answers and ID satisfied them. There are several rules one must adhere to now days.
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Do not trespass to get the special pic (s).
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Avoid taking photos around or near high security areas, military basses, naval ports or other such sites. You would not drive up to a nuclear plant gate and start taking photos, would you?
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Use common sense.
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Take along a photo album in your car with pics of your layout, copies of MR, or something to show you are not a nut case bent of doing harm. A member card from NARA or a club also goes a long way.
If you really want some photos, contact the RR Public Relations office and request some or ask for a tour. You may be surprised at how many RR’s grant such things to sincere railroad buffs.
If all that seems to be an invasion or your privacy, compare that to a night or longer in a jail until your lawyer gets you out. Then of course there is the body cavity search to make your stay memorable. If you still want information about yards or other sites, try using Googe Earth for an overview. Depending upon the location, some sites are blocked from view.
Good luck
Joe
Second all of the above.
In my neck of the world, Mapquest aerial view resolves to about 100 feet to the inch, and that’s plenty enough to model just about anything.
In the past I have wandered around public roads and streets with a clipboard and pencil, sketching industrial trackage. The one time I was approached about it (by a city officer) my military ID ended the hostility before it had a chance to build up.
Chuck [MSgt(ret) USAF, modeling Central Japan in September, 1964]
Thanks for the information, that’s basically what I wanted to know. And yes, I would prefer to avoid the jail stay (with or without searches)
Of course your rank just makes me think of “What does 3 up and 3 down mean to you?” “End of an inning?” from Good Morning, Vietnam. [:D]
–Randy
My recommendations is to stay in well known railfan “hot spots”…You see the LEOs (Law Enforcement Officers) knows about those places where “train buffs” gather.
I have visited NS’s Bellevue yard as well as CSX’s Willard yard without incident…I even had a Bellevue LEO to drive by and wave.
As you may have already discovered, one must be especially careful there around the Port of Wilmington,NC. Other than the main street through the area, virtually everything is private property and watched by security guards. There is a short section of street running just east of downtown Wilmington and I photographed there once. I had parked on the street in a lawful spot and stayed on the public sidewalk while waiting for the switcher to leave the fuel terminal and come down the middle of the street. The security guard (private security, not a police officer) from the fuel company came out and inquired what I was doing, and I stayed polite in stating that since he had been watching me for half an hour he knew what I was photographing and that I hadn’t been on his property. He revealed that he had little understanding of constitutional law on taking photographs from public property. (I believe that there was an article in Trains several years back with a full track plan of the Port of Wilmington.)
The guidance in earlier posts is solid. With the nationwide increase in concern, I became much more alert to NOT trespassing on RR property, and a good lens allows access to plenty of views from public property such as roads. In most states, railroad police are fully state certified as police officers and are better trained than security guards. Recognize that with the proliferation of cell phones, many folks now see themselves as important by reporting everything and the police will respond to such reports. I know of a railfan friend who was reported as being suicidal because he was standing on the pedestrian sidewalk of a bridge over the tracks with two cameras around his neck. The police will respond and investigate such reports even if they are completely bogus - and you don’t know what some passerby has reported to the police. (Picture someone reporting "he’s carrying a
KIM any problems you have are just as likely - or more likely - to come from a “private dick” than an actual Law Enforcement Officer. We have a rail-served refinery in our area, and their private security guards will come out when a train is setting out or picking up cars and make a big deal about people not taking pictures of that shows the refinery itself, since it is a “designated national security site” or some such baloney. The refinery has been there for like 65 years, and is clearly visible for maybe 15-20 miles away - especially at night, when it’s lit up so brightly you can probably see it from space. Plus of course it’s right next to the Mississippi River and is next to BNSF and CP’s mainlines to Chicago, so it’s not like it’s a supersecret installation of NATO. [D)] But Joe Rentacop feels important when he can make people delete pics that might show a smokestack of the plant or something.
Stix,About 8-9 years ago I had a minor problem with a rent a cop…I was parked by the NS tracks on public land…A Security Officer from one of the nearby industries drove up and started questioning me about taking pictures…I was polite and ask him what company he was assigned to…He told me and I replied,well,you’re off your post and away from your client’s property and I suggest you return to your duty post before you get wrote up for being away from your assigned duty station since this is public land and I am not trespassing on your clients property.
And BTW…How’s Lt.N(the security company’s area roving supervisior) doing these days? The poor guy turn pale and left the area…What I didn’t tell the guard was Lt.N and I met several times as competitors in catfish tournaments and only knew each other by that means…