Now I know how right I was to choose a logging layout, anything goes, and I’m the one who “PROTOTYPES” stuff, This forum reminds me of people that collect “dinky” toys, (cast metal) these toys are valued by their “condition” such as bad, good, used, fair and mint, well, mint could only be if someone who made these toys stole it from the factory right after it had been painted, so in reality there is no such thing as “mint” although sellers want a mint price.
This is a mute point to gobble up our bandwidth for more important stuff…
This hobby has a wide variety and cost points to enjoy it. Wanna hear a rant from me? try buying brass! 8-D
IHC has more price friendly locomotives, if you want to have one of their engines look more like the true prototype they letter it for you may have to mod it up to do so, they tend to slap a road name on their stuff even if it isn’t accurate, its called freelancing.
Life LIke brought out their berkshire, which rides around 200-400 bucks, but Bachmann released theirs
Clearly, neither of you has any appreciation or knowledge whatever of historical facts and situations regarding Lionel. In 1927 the top-end Lionel sets such as this - just like the Presidential or Prosperity Specials of Flyer in that period - were intended to sell to the extremely wealthy of the day, in a time when the soaring stock market seemed to have no celing. They were the equivalent of the very top-end O-gauge brass models of today (i.e. perhaps in the $8,000-$10,000 range). The Lionel products of that period aimed at the common man were marketed far, far more cheaply and O-gauge would soon appear to lower those costs even more. Lionel’s extreme pricing practices forced them into virtual bankruptcy in the 1930’s, so it might just be interesting to watch for what happens regarding some of the current big names over the next 24 months.
My advice would be to attempt to read up on a subject before trying to state something authoritative about it…always a problem with some of you here.
CNJ831
I’ll admit it. When I see a full SD75i consist, or a GEVO, consist, I don’t like it. But by no means does that make me a whiner. It just makes me want to go out and try and get the full EMD consists I like. When I do get a nice consist like that (ok I know some forum members would rather take GEVOs, I respect that. But I hope people respect my interest in locomotives) it makes me feel like I caught something “rare” or unusual for a particular area. When I caught a full SD40/40-2 consist leading a main line grain train out of Canada, it made me feel like I got something unusual.
I will also admit that I to am one of these “Rivet Counters”. I like to have my locomotives very detailed. But I do not by any means bash any ones work because it is inferior to mine. I also don’t complain about manufactures placing details in the wrong spots. If the horn is in the wrong place I’ll just move it!
Some one said that the high prices are driving out the younger kids. Some time you should look at Teen Model Railroader Place, there are many teen modelers. I to am a teen modeler and I can stay in the hobby. Some people also some what Stereo Typicalize that we get all of our money from our parents. By no means do my parents help me out financially with the hobby. Most of the money I make I worked for, and almost all of my models I bought from the money I earned(The bulk of my locomotive fleet is P2Ks, Atlas, Kato, and Athearn). Christmas and Birthdays are a few exceptions.
And I whole heartedly agree but call up the many Internet threads that diss IHC models because of inaccuracy, when someone asks if they are a good buy. “Inaccurate; at best vaguely only generic; IHC too often just swaps bodies onto other mechanisms.” Yes, that’s all true but the models typically run very well and nearly forever (and until recently were inexpensive). Nevertheless, the general tone of responses is to pass on them and buy something more accurate - for twice the price - even though the wouldbe buyer wouldn’t recognize prototypical accurate if it hit him on the head!
CNJ831
About 3 1/2 years ago, I pulled a bunch of old cardboard boxes full of trains out of my attic. I started researching and planning, and spent 6 months in that phase before I ever put two pieces of track together or wired up a power pack. As a teenager, when I first bought those trains, back before anyone had heard of Vietnam, I thought I was becoming a prototype modeller when I sold my Lionels and switched to HO. 18-inch curves and all, to me, I was building the most realistic layout I could.
I’ve changed my outlook. I know that my trains aren’t absolutely as realistic as they can be. Those old cars with molded-on ladders and grab-ons wouldn’t pass muster at most clubs, but for now, they look pretty good with just a bit of weathering. The new cars I buy will gradually replace them, though, and my railroad will evolve into a better one.
But ya know, when I go to a show and see a nicely-detailed club layout, and then Thomas comes around the corner and all the kids brighten up and point, I smile too. You just can’t argue with happiness, I guess.
Hobbies are supposed to be for enjoyment, not work. Do what if someone does something that isn’t prototypical or totally correct? If it suits them that should be fine for everbody. If it isn’t, then there are better ways to make constructive criticism than to laugh them in the face.
If all model railroading is to you is another job, then I think you are in the wrong hobby. I also think that making any criticism that is not conmstructive (i.e., laughing and kids or even other adults) might just push people away from the hobby or scare them off. Remember everybody once started with a toy train and not everyone progressed beyond that point to the same level you are at.
Model railroading is supposed to be fun for everyone and if you don’t let it be, maybe it’s time to lock yourself in your own basement and do it the way you want.
If you want to educate people there are better ways to do it than be confrontational.
Irv
Comparing the price increase of a plastic car model kit to an assembled running model train is not a fair comparison. Car kits get molded, the sprues inspected, put in a bag/box and shipped out the door for the consumer to do the really difficult, time consuming work themselves.
They don’t have motors, precision metal wheels and gears. No circuit boards, computer chips, wiring, lighting, painting, lettering, assembly and testing involved. When you factor all that in, it’s amazing they’re as cheap as they are!
I agree rivet counters are annoying, but like mosquitoes, they have their place in the modeling food chain. I just wouldn’t drive across town and pay monthly dues to run my trains with any of them. Constructive criticism is one thing. The flat out whining, bickering, complaining some of them do is quite another.
His insistence on quality made Lionels pricey, even for some you’d think could have afforded them. In All Aboard, his history of Lionel, Ron Hollander describes a visit the young Nelson Rockefeller made to the company showroom, accompanied by "a governess, bodyguard, chauffeur, and several others… . Finally he decided on a station [an accessory]. Cowen told him it was $1.50. Crestfallen, Rockefeller said he didn’t have that much.
-American Heritage
Of course, you’re right… [:-^]
-George
Fellas, we’ve done this. Many, many times. The results never change. Same arguments from the same people. Isn’t there anything else of interest this weekend? No progress to contribute to WPF, no new model you’re working on? Jon Grant is always in motion and keeps us apprised of his changes and advancement. No informal product reviews from anyone out there?
[zzz]
I made a post a while back about how IHC’s long awaited upgrades consisted of nothing more than a decoder plug and blackened wheels added to their same ole, same ole inaccurate, generic models nearly doubling their price and got jumped all over for it![B)]
Just brush it off run you’re trains the way you want to. I do i went to a local club yesterday and checked it out they bashed me because i ran a coal train with a BLI BN SD40-2, Athearn RTR IC SD40, and a bachmann ATSF GP40. The bashing came from the ATSF 40, they knew and so did i ATSF only had one GP40 i learned that here on the forums, but anyway they poked fun at the little engine and i just told them i’ll run my trains the way i want to thats how i have fun. They left me alone and actually helped me out alot learning to apply decals and other stuff. Just brush it off and remember in model railroading you can do what you want to, look at all the freelancers on this forum they do what they want to and have lots of fun! I model the BN and i run anything from F7’s to SD70MAC’s thats just how i model. Do what is fun to you dont care what other people say and remember that old saying sticks and stones!
Periodically I have seen, in my two years on this forum and back in the hobby, a thread or parts of threads like this.
If this were antique cars hobby: 1) there are those who religiously restore a car to its natural state (as it came from the factory), 2)those who restore it with updates of modern technology (maybe add fuel injected motor or a/c) and 3) those who chop, hack, whack, and modify a car sometimes beyond recognition of what it was to start with.
The same is true of model railroading. 1) There are rivet counters and prototypical advocates 2)there are those who keep fairly accurate but don’t care if all the MU hoses are correct 3) those who run/do what they want.
Getting back into the hobby and now in HO which I always wanted, I opperate auspiciously under three principles: 1)My budget restraints 2) my very tight space limitations 3)“it’s my railroad and I’ll run what I wanna” (see below)
1)I am on disability. I am pleased to have a $4.99 box car to run around my pike. At least I have something to run for now. I like to run trains, not just sit and look at them! Later, I can use it to practice weathering. I can maybe kit bash it. When I have some basics costs done(ie track, power, layout table etc), I can always upgrade to more prototypical and exacting equipment kit that costs me $25.[;)]
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I have a 3.5 x 5 HO layout, with two interconnected circles, a small spur yard, and a small spur engine facility. I have managed to have a not flat “prarie”- elevating and lowering the tracks an inch each, and it has a mountain town too! Whew! all that in such a small space. It is NOT a “pizza” layout either! Prototypical? Maybe Not, but as I have been reminded several times in my life “you work with what you have”!
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I like the pragmatic Chessie system. My railroad is a “sub” off the B&O,C&O, Chessie, and all
Yes good advice. I suggest you take it yourself.
That is very true and, as I read the OP, it is to the point.
I had a telescope made for me in another hobby I enjoy, and really love that telescope. Out at a big annual event-- the Texas Star Party-- there are lots of differences in interests and technology. A mentally challenged young man of about twenty-five appreciated my friends and I sharing our scopes with him (and with others) and showing interesting things. He frequently showed up, and asked question and told us what he liked to look at.
In that hobby, a general rule of thumb is that any telescope less than $400.00 is a toy. The ads and claims of introductory telescopes (18 gazillion “power”) are almost guaranteed to rob a newbie of his money and his hobby because they are useless for anything but terrestrial daylight viewing.
So on the second or third day, this handicapped young man went and spent his money on a pretty good low-end scope-- not a toy, but rather a recognized exception to the $400.00 rule. He was so proud. A well known amateur, and icon in that hobby, who had done so much for the hobby dropped by to peek through my scope. He had some technical criticism of my current set-up (the Plössl optics I was using at the time not taking full advantage of the potential field of view). I am aware that he wanted to make sure I knew the mathematics, so I could get the best of my equipment, and so I did not take offence. We had a discussion of the gap in optics for the geometry of a scope like mine. Fine. Two rivet counters counting rivets.
The
Cregil-Check your PM.
Same conversation…
Same arguments…
Same outcome…
Same conclusion…
Time to move on…