We recently travelled back from our vacation through Altoona and discovered that the RMM have completed their segment round house enclosure. Does anyone know if the plan to re-assemble 1361 has been put into motion? Exactly where are all of the various components? The tender was on the property and we last observed the frame and cylinders at Steamtown back in 2011.
Many thanks.
I haven’t heard anything, but I really hope they can restore it soon. Such an iconic locomotive.
The boiler is in Rockhill Furnace at the East Broad Top. Why, I don’t know, it’s not being worked on there, but it’s in the way of the restoration crews.
Is this the (K4 ?) that was displayed at Horseshoe Curve for many years?
Yes.
As you said, it is the one that was located on the famous curve. I donated money to get it worked on the first time while it was still on the curve, but a failed bearing on a main driver caused it to be sidelined. The fact it was shipped to Steam Town for rebuilding, which I also viewed during its stay there, was a surprise and the boiler work was not finished at Steam Town. Some of the problems had to do with the changing regulations for the thickness of the boiler and the amount of the work needed to complete the job.
The picture below is the last time saw the K4 at Steam Town in the roundhouse three years ago.
CZ
Very sore subject in the PRRT&HS. Allegations of squandered money, shoddy work, miss management , and new regulations has seen the project come to a screaming halt. Just goes to show you we can’t do anything in this country anymore. They were turned out by the hundreds at an average cost of $40,000. Now after millions thrown at it it is still in pieces that requires millions more just to get it ready for display.
What a country we have become!
Pete
Pete, I can understand your anger and frustration over what’s happened to 1361, believe me I feel it too. The incompetance and mismanagement are just inexcusable.
However, the new safety regs concerning steam operations now are there for a reason, and were arrived at by some very experienced steam hands consulted by the government. Surprise, surprise. This was to prevent a repeat of the accident on the Gettysburg Railroad back in the '90s.
Remember, the next steam locomotive that blows up will be the last one that ever turns a wheel in public. Trust me.
Firelock.
From what I have read from the society is that when changes were made to comply with boiler inspections, rules were changed and at times it seamed that the inspectors were not giving the right information. Money was wasted in complying with some inspections only to be failed in others. There is absolutely no modern book of standards for mobile boilers. Some say this type of boiler would be grandfathered to earlier safety standards but some other say no.
At the least it should be reassembled for display until mobile boiler standards can be agreed on. You can’t be making up the rules after the starting bell has set the game in motion. This is what has happened. The last time the boiler was renewed was back in the mid fifties. The boiler and safety appliances complied then as it should be now. It may be 2013 but the boiler is still mid 1950s. The Gettysburg accident was due to lack of maintenance on the safety appliances and boiler. The choked up low water alarm and the fact that the water glass cocks were closed led to the overheating of the crown sheet. Running a steam locomotive on a shoestring budget will defer maintenance that can be critical.
Pete
Don’t get me wrong Pete, we’re both on the same side here. I want to see that old classic run as much as you do.
I guess the thing is no-one seems to know just what the hell is going on here. Can it be brought back? What has to be done to bring it back? IF it’s brought back is there a place to run it? No-one seems to be talking. I wish a steam genius like Lynn Moedinger of the Strasburg could be brought in to look it over and make an evaluation.
I think this lack of direction and communication is what’s really driving everyone mad.
Wayne
Wayne.
We seem to agree. If it can not be made to run at a reasonable cost then at least reassemble it and display it as it was when placed on the curve. Having it in pieces in several different locations is a recipe for disaster. This is what angers me the most. Lost and misplaced parts would do no one any good.
Pete
Displaying it at the curve isn’t a good idea.
Would likely seal the deal that she will never be fully restored and she would be exposed to the elements out there and likely increase vandalism chances which is hardly what you want to do with a steam locomotive in the 21st century that was operable a few years ago, has had rebuild work done, and still has hopes of running again. And full shelter for her would detract from sight lines and rather defeat much of the point of her being displayed there in the first place.
Safely inside the small roundhouse they’re building for her is far better and she’s just as much at home there in Altoona. Plus, there’s a fine display of a PRR Geep now at the curve that would be displaced and possibly at risk if the K4s returned.
Your right, the curve is not a good idea and I do not believe the RRMM had such intentions due to the cost and NS cooperating with the time consuming task to put her back. I am a lifetime member of the museum, my membership is regarded as a “founding father” status, been a member a long time. When I went to the museum to ask what was up with the K4, all I got was a “deer in the headlights” look back at me. No one could give me an answer and I expressed my concern about the money that I and many others donated to get her running as this is a slap in the face to all of us. Again, no difinitive answer.
I also belong to the PRRT&HS, editor Chuck Blardone ran several editorials trying to get answers about the K4 and its current dilemma, his efforts were like pulling teeth. I admire his tenacity in pressing the issue as so many wanted answers. People in the PRR circle of things are greatly disappointed, the basis for the problem was a lack of oversight and management from the museum. You don’t send a child out to the Nanny and not check on them.
Ever check out the others museum pieces at the RRMM? The GG1 is a mess, Mountain View is starting to rust…this does not look well in the eyes of the public as to the museum’s operation. Squandering the millions of dollars dedicated to the K4, a politician or a corporate CEO doing that would be investigated. Lets hope a more organized civic group in Altoona takes Alto Tower under their wing, the museum…well, thats another story.[:(!]
Excuses, there are none. If you can build a steam locomotive from scratch like some have recently done…you can restore a locomotive as well. The money and opportunity were there, so that only leaves one aspect that failed. I would love to see it run, but right now I am willing to settle for a cosmetic rebuild, stored in the new roundhouse so people can at
Sorry guys.
I did not say put it back on the curve. Just get it looking as good as when it was there in the beginning. It definitely needs a shelter to be displayed in. I wish someone would take the last remaining I1sa and cosmetically restore it and shelter it. Rusting away in Hamburg is not doing it justice.
Pete
You’re right, my apologies for my sloppy reading of your post.
And I STILL fail to understand how something that was up and running and in apparantly beautiful shape in 1989 could deteriorate to near junk status in the time since. Makes no sense. 1989’s not THAT long ago! The locomotive aged a lot more gracefully left alone on Horse Shoe Curve. OK, the paint peeled but you know what I mean.
Firelock.
From what I have been told is when it was running it had too many leaky stay bolts, the crown sheet was distorted, the lower legs were mud caked, and it had leaking tubes. The supporting gear such as injector pump and other equipment were not functioning to keep it going for any extended amount of time. This was not entirely due to lack of maintenance but the fact that this type of boiler is designed to be kept hot. Too many hot and cold cycles will increase the amount of maintenance required. I suppose if left under steam the amount of work required to get it running would have been better for it in the long run. This is true of all low pressure steam generators.
Pete
Hmm, sounds like they missed a few things at the restoration. Paraphrasing something Linn Moedinger said about steam restoration, take the time, spend the money, you’re going to find more problems than you think you will, get it right the first time. You’ll be better off in the long run. Pity.
Back in the 90’s “Locomotive and Railway Preservation” magazine, old “Eleanor P” had an article about the Strasburgs restoration of # 475, the ex-Norfolk and Western 4-8-0. Quite a saga with everything thay had to do to bring that old girl back to life. Mr. Moedinger knows what he’s talking about.
If it had been sent to the Strasburg Rail Road shops, Lynn Modinger and his team would
have had it running several years ago!
I have to believe that’s true. The Strasburg boys aren’t supermen but there’s very little they can’t do.