I’m currently planning to use PRR-Style Colored PCL Signals for my Layout, Does anyone have any kind of diagram for these? I’m planning to 3D model and print them.
PRR did not use CPLs; that was a B&O (Patenall) innovation. The wiring logic is no different from any tricolor signal, with ‘red’ to the two horizontal bulbs, ‘amber’ to the two at 45 degrees, and ‘green’ to the vertical. There is no mechanical drive as in a semaphore.
The original (‘tombstone’) PRR position lights had four bulbs per aspect, and the aspects crossed over strangely, so you’d need more custom wiring than the results probably justify. I cheated a bit when doing the classic three-bulb type by just leaving the center bulb always lit; the horizontal, angle, and vertical aspects can then be wired just for CPLs but of course only using the right single color of bulb.
Probably by now someone has manufactured very small or SMD LEDs with the ‘correct’ phosphor color for PRR position lighting, which is influenced by material in the pointed glass lenses of the ‘real thing’. If you can’t find them you’d have to use radio dial dye or other transparent material like that used for fake stained glass to get the right color, and turn the lenses with a drill and files/sandpaper/lapping film from transparent rod stock.
Norfolk and Western, which was controlled by PRR, experimented with red horizontal aspects on otherwise-PRR-style position lights in the 1950s, and I believe there were some places on PRR Lines West where this was done. I always assumed this was red bulbs in the ‘horizontal’ position, but that wouldn’t account for the center bulb. I am quite certain that Ed will have PRR diagrams that show how the trick was done.
Amtrak on the present NEC uses a CPL style comparable to B&Os, with smaller LED lights and I think smaller heads. Surely there is someone who makes signals or parts for these in popular scales…
The usage of positional signals by the PRR and later the B&O actually was a great move. There was no way to confuse the signal aspect even if you were colorblind as long as you could see the lights ypu knew what the indication was.
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Only the two outer horizontal red bulbs lit up for the stop aspect.
Source : we used to have one or two of the red eye interlocking signals. I don’t know if they were put in place by prr or later converted by subsequent rrs.
Thanks!
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I have quite a few Pennsy position light signals on my layout. Most I made from Oregon Railway Supply parts. Yes, a little oversize but quite effective.
PRR_7125-Queen Mary-1 by Edmund, on Flickr
I seem to recall a discussion on the PRR.io list that the red roundels for ‘absolute’ stop began to be implemented around 1947 or so. I’d have to check.
PRR_position-light by Edmund, on Flickr
Presently I am working on some Dwarf PLs using 0403 LEDs:
There are dozens of PRR Standard Signal Plans to be found on some of the Pennsy sites:
Also look into the ‘Keystone Modeler’ online magazine. Lots of help for the Pennsy Modeler.
The example above is the issue where I found much of my dwarf PL info.
Good Luck, Ed
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As originally installed the PRR’s Position Light Signals did not have ANY color component. All indications were done with the yellowish-white bulb in every light position in the signal. Dipalys were either Vertical, Horizontal or Diagonal to both the right and left as well as having a second display head.
It wasn’t until the late 1960’s or early 70’s that a program was started to display Red in the horizontal display on the signals. I don’t know if that was a PRR or Penn Central initiative.
Like PC could afford red light bulbs.
They probably piggybacked the order Bevan placed for the Executive Jet Aviation ‘hostesses’.
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PRR used red lenses in the early 60’s. Pittsburgh Region timetable No. 11 Oct. 29 61has G.O.1113 June 22 1962 . Home signals equipped with red lights displaying Stop Indication at Harmar and Acme Interlocking, in service. Lived here for 64 years and always saw Red Interlocking Stop signal Acme, unless cleared for west bound move.
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If that was the mention in the Timetable - those were the ONLY two locations where that was the display at the time - all other signaled locations would be the standard ‘yellow’ lights of all the other light positions.
Balt, that is the only reference I found on changing lenses on home signals. In the mid to late 60’s , we would go to the north side shopping ,going down Rt28, home signals at CQ were Red lenses.
In the early 1970’s I was doing a fair amount of commuting between Baltimore and Akron using the PA Turnpike - Recall there was one PRR Position Light signal that I would see when driving Eastbound - sometime during the nearly three years I was making the commute on a bi-weekly basis the the ends of the horizontal row were changed to red.
Balt, l am wondering if you were seeing Homewood Jct. signals just west of Beaver Valley . They were on the hill just on your right ,before the railroad bridge overpass at beaver valley.
Suspect that is the one. The Beaver Valley has the P&LE on one side of the river and the PRR is on the other side of the river down in the valley which the PA Turnpike’s bridge spans.
Balt, correct. P&LE tracks on west side of river, driving east first tracks under bridge are P&LE. When you drove the turnpike ,4 P&LE tracks below. Today ONE track remains. On the PRR side, it to is down ONE also. PA Turnpike is also building a new Beaver Valley river bridge.
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Further East on the Turnpike it crosses over what was the B&O’s P&W Subdivision. Having worked operator’s positions at both Etna and Bakerstown during the Summer of 1967 when it was a double track current of traffic signaled line - viewing from the Turnpike in the early 70’s you could see all the sand that trains had ground into the roadbed on #1 (Westbound) track as the trains were climbing Bakerstown Hill. Shortly thereafter the P&W was single tracked and CTC’d. When I bid in the ACD’s position on the Baltimore Division in 1996, empties were being operated on the P&W from New Castle to Pittsburgh with loads going the P&LE. B&P had trackage rights from Eidenau to New Castle. Somewhere around the CR acquisition the P&W had so many 10 MPH slow orders, it was nominally 10 MPH for its entire distance. Shortly thereafter, Glenwood to Allison Park was leased to the Allegheny Valley, Allison Park to New Castle was leased to the B&P. I have heard of a ‘few’ through trains operated from the AVL to both New Castle and Butler on the B&P - how many and how frequently I don’t know.
Balt, many things you mention bring back memories. You worked at BG . Never was in BG , but went by on the etna shifter. PRR- PC-CR used the industrial track that crossed at BG. After BG closed had to call Jacksonville disp. Also went Bakerstown when it was open . Watched 2101 on the hill late 78. Still double track. Loved the call for signals and operator came out with orders. We use to stop at rt910 and watch trains with F units as helpers.Also PC-CR had big interchange with B&O . 7&8 were the interchange tracks.
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Summer of 1967 my Dad was transferred from the St. Louis Division to AGM of the Central Region at Pittsburgh. As an Extra Operator I also transferred to the Pittsburgh Div. Worked FY, Etna, Bakerstown and Eidenau of the extra list during that Summer and then transferred to the Akron-Chicago Div. in the Fall to attend college at Kent State.
Balt, funny little story about FY. My very close friend was a Conemaugh div. Conductor at 43’d street yard. He was shifting the refinery below FY. When he returned to 43’d street the trainmaster was waiting. The operator at FY had turned him in for having a cigarette in his mouth. He laughed and said best part was we had a B6sb switcher that the fireman was always playing with his fire.More sparks out of stack than his butt.Now there nothing left of industry or FY.