I’ve never been extremely happy with how my Bowser PRR T-1 turned out after I painted it. I only used a single color over the whole thing. The color is even, but the surface is pretty spotty looking and has an uneven shine over most of it, which a clear coat couldn’t fix. The decals are full of tiny bubbles, and they didn’t bond with the Modelflex paint even after using Solvaset (one of the PRR shields was ripped through the clear coat by masking tape and destroyed when I tried gluing a coal load in).
Sometime in the future, I’m going to strip and repaint it. Before I do, I want to know what colors I’ll need? I know the body and cylinders are DGLE, the frames and trucks are black, and the tender deck is a Tuscan red color (I use Model Master “Rot”). What about the firebox and cab roof? Should they be graphite and red? Or are they the color of the body? I’ve seen it done both ways on different models, and I want to know which is right before I do anything. Prototype photos haven’t helped so far, since they’re almost all black and white.
True, the standard for all PRR locomotive color was Brunswick green, but the real ones looked black in the sunlight if they were not clean. It is very hard to get a model of the T1 or any other PRR locomotive to look correct in sunlight. The actual formula was black paint with a few drops of some green added to get a very slight greenish look to black.
You can see many pictures of PRR diesels in the green that show up better than steam since they were not so dirty.
I use black with just a drop of dark green added and then weather in the locomotive to my taste. The BLI T1, which I have looks to green to me but I like it anyway.
CZ
This picture is from a book but you can see the tender looks to have the greenish look since it is cleaner but the T1 looks to be almost black. Interesting color to model correctly.
This is one of my pictures of a T1 stopping for the coaling tower at Effingham. Black and white pictures do not show the green cast but they just seemed to be almost black. The color on the Genesis PRR F units is about as close as you can get in scale models.
According to some PRR Modelers Scalecoats Brunswick Green used to be the best representation of DGLE around, there have been complaints lately that it is too green. Go to this website for the latest paint formulations by some serious PRR Modelers.
As far as I know all streamlined locos had a DGLE cab roof. Tender decks was an Oxide red or what they refer to as FCC (freight car color). and the cab roof of freight or low speed locos was Toludine red. Inside of cabs was Apple green. Some say that DGLE was 5 gallons of gloss black with 1 cup apple green. Most will agree that DGLE is in the eye of the painter. From what pictures I have seen in color the T1 also had DGLE wheels but looked dark because of the shadow from the cowling.
Yes it is westbound out of Harrisburg. This is a picture from a book to illustrate the color changes that you see when the tender is clean and the locomotive is dirty.
All of my pictures of the T1’s are in black and white. I can only find a few pictures of the T1’s in color but they were magnificient to watch. I was in the cab of serveral T1’s when the crew invited us to look around when they were stopped at the coaling tower.
I have read the formula for the paint and your description sounds about right. I only know if you mix mostly black with a few drops of dark green, it will look fairly good. Most freight engines I have color pictures of have Brunswick on the cab roof also. There is a great picture in one of my color PRR books that show many locomotives in storage at Altoona during a railroad strike while the shops continued working on the locomotives for the return to business. It was taken from above and all of the tender decks were painted with the oxide or what ever color dull red you use. Even the inside of a T1 stack had that paint, but none of the larger power had anything but black on the cab roofs. The article stated, all of the older locomotives get the oxide cab roofs, but the M1a up got regular Brunswick on the cab roof. Interesting how changes and different rules applied to the same railroad for different power. And I sure we can all locate an exception to any rule that was made.
CZ
This T1 is in the St, Louis station probably heading to my home town of Effingham 100 mil
Ballls book “The PRR IN THE 40S and 50S” has a picure of stored refurbished engnes taken on top of a T1. It clearly shows the inside of the stack iis oxiide red.
Yes, that is the picture I was talking about. Those engines have been shopped and stored because of the strike. You can clearly see all of the tender decks are oxide but the cab roofs of all large locomotives are the normal color. I don’t remember seeing a J1 or K4 on the St. Louis main line every have oxide on the cab roof, but the H10’s at Effingham for protection power probably had the oxide roof.
So it appears that the firebox was colored graphite? It’s hard to tell from the photos, and I see the BLI model has it, but I just want to be certain.[:D]
it is impossible to know for sure because the firebox sides burn off everything that is painted on to them. If you are modeling brand new or just out of the shops, they would have some graphite that was dark. Most railroads did use an oil /graphite color on very hot areas such as exposed smoke boxes and fireboxes.
I like to use a darker graphite and then weather it in to look as if it is burned off.
CZ
This is my best picture of a T1 that is clean but it is in black and white. The firebox sides seem to be graphite since this is the reviewing stand at the Chicago Rail Fair. We attended the show and my Mother took this picture.
I think the context of the service your model represents is a factor. Regardless of what color the unit shown at the St Louis Union Terminal train shed was on day one leaving the factory, it is surely a dirty grey-ish black in the photo.
Even a light coating of dust and road grime renders the discussion of how many drops of green paint need be added into the black paint conversation moot. As I said, what is the role your engine plays on your model railroad?
Looking at the color pictures I linked to it does not appear that the T1 had a Graphite smoke box. This is due to the heavy lagging and streamlined shrouding that was placed over the smoke box. As far as I can tell the only duplex locos that got the graphite was the Q1 and Q2. Even the S1 has DGLE from front to back and head to toe. On the Northeast rail fan site there is a shot of a T1 taken at the erecting shop in primer gray with an entire striping and fancy keystone.
It is well known that the first photo of any class of locomotive was done in flat gray paint with lettered and stripped as would have been in production. The Flat gray was done for better contrast and you can not see the ripples as easily. Try to find shots of them in the shop with the front open and you will see no need for graphite on the outside. Even the streamlined K4s had no graphite. All locos had painted toludine red inside the stacks.
The special paint for the first locomotive was standard in all of the industry to show detail. Only one was painted normally and then painted over to indicate the correct color before delivered.
You are correct. The pictures clearly show this and I watched them many times in those years. After a few runs, the T1’s would look almost black with coal dust and grimy color all over them. They were smokey locomotives and had a reputation for that trait. The keyword for my posting was exposed smoke box and firefox. Some railroads like the Santa Fe intstalled jacketing on the fire box sides and the smoke box to save on heat lo
I agree that weathering probably mutes the issue. When new, the BLi is close but I believe it should be darker color. My pictures of the T1 at the Chicago Rail Fair was shined to the best they could do. It looks black in the B&W photo, but was really a really dark green the same as the diesels. Athearn offered the F units for the PRR that I thought looked fairly close for a model train. The problem with scaling down a surface to 1/87 scale from a full sized locomotive is the paint does not look exactly the same.
I left my BLI as new since it is a display locomotive and they look very nice.
I can see painting the graphite under the shrouding and cowls but not the outer skin. The outer skin was DGLE front to back. The streamlined nose was hinged to swing open to open the smoke box front. I will try to find an online pic if I can. Painting a model of this locomotive would not require any Graphite. Unless you are modeling a locomotive partially torn down and the asbestos lagging torn off. Even while the scrappers torch was cutting there was still some running the rails in faded and dirty DGLE.
Thanks for the comment. Sorry I missed you question. I just noticed it today.
We sometimes would go east of town about ten miles when the T1’s were still doing track speed. If you want to know what impressive is, you would have to been there at trackside to get one of these down around 100 mph with a train. I don’t know the exact speed they were going but they had about forty miles of straight track into our town from the east and the T1’s at speed laid down smoke and the dust rose from the roadbed. You needed to stand back from the track as they went by at speed. The roller rods were just a blur and they were gone in a flash to the west.
The Bachmann color does look fairly close if the colors are showing correctly in the picture. I mix mine from a little silver mixed with some graphite and add some dark gray to make it look good to me. I used to use a mix that looke
Before we get crazy here, when Jon Grant painted a PRR B6sa and showed his model next to a picture of the prototype. I pointed out to him and now to everyone else, that under all the filth and grime on that prototype engine, the DGLE was still shiny and the slightly green tinge was evident. Our models need to show the same thing.
The bad maintenance and neglect of steam engines did not occur until the last year of steam on all railroads.
