Since the guy’s first thread got hijacked then locked, maybe a more civil discussion about the actual merits of the products is worth a try.
The decision of a person to use the products instead of fabricating their own will be highly based upon their situation, which may be quite different then someone else’s. A person who lives in an apartment has a completely different need than someone who has a workshop in their garage. That situation by itself can go a long way to deciding which is the better option for them.
I believe PRR1’s concern was influenced by the amount of time needed to fabricate his own benchwork. Judging from some of the facts contained in the previous thread’s responses, it appears that the kit benchwork can be described as pre-cut, pre-sanded, pre-drilled, lumber that has been designed to assemble according to the buyer’s design specifications. That beats filling your kitchen with a bunch of sawdust if you live in an apartment, but time saving may not be its best advantage, considering the products must still be assembled (so it seems) according to instructions (I assume like an assemble-by-number system). Got to get the right piece in the right spot the first time or else redoing your work is costing you time.
Although I own a larger basement layout, my interest in the hobby is focusing on shelf type bedroom sized layouts likely to be built in pre-finished and carpeted space where I would want the lumber and benchwork to look a bit more professional than what suits my storage room basement layout I have now. I can see kit benchwork as a possible option.
So, I thought I would start this thread in case anybody had anymore reasonable comments they would like to share, and to hopefully help PRR1 feel more welcome.
One would suppose that once the layout is finished and landscaped, the bench work (and it’s lumber) wouldn’t be visible especially with decent fascia boards or curtains.
In the end it’s a trade-off between costs/possible mess and ease of assembly. (Many of us to not have a wood working shop to precision rip plywood or lumber.)
The ease of use and construction of pre-fab workbenches works out great for me. It is a significant time saver, I don’t have to figure out how much lumber to purchase, what kind of hardware to get, there is no sawing, no drilling, and an average size benchwork can be finished in just a couple of hours with a screw driver and wrench. There is no need to load or unload lumber as everything is delivered to your front door.
Back in the day when I was a lot younger then I would build my own benchwork but today I enjoy the convenience of using a pre-fab kit. It’s just a matter of personal preference and at my age I am very thankful these products exist.
My only experience is with Siever’s Benchwork. They are an excellent company offering a high quality product by paying a great deal of attention to detail and customer service.
I am currently building my own layout bench work in my basement and can offer PRR1 some items for thought… Building bench work is time consuming and creates a mess. From going to get the material, bringing it home, cutting and assembling. It requires a vehicle for transportation and the necessary tools. The simpler the layout the simpler the construction and tools. If PRR1 has the time, tools, vehicle and place to work then building his/her own bench work might be the answer. If PRR1 prefers to buy pre-built bench work to jump start his layout building then I say go for it. Why bog yourself down with an aspect of the hobby that you do not like, and maybe are not equipped for?
Having the necessary tools, vehicle, time etc i have never looked into purchasing ready made bench work. After a year of basement renovation and bench work building I am not really sure how much I have saved by doing it all myself. I will say this though, the bench work building has become a drudge. I am wishing for the end of the bench work tunnel to appear. It gets harder and harder to get motivated as the project drags on. I cannot wait to lay the track and get to the scenery stage.
Thank you for starting a new thread. I really think that my big issue is time. I want to get it done fast, which commercial benchwork would provide. Talking it over with the chief financial officer, she does not mind the cost. what I am looking forward to is track laying and scenery. I have contacted Benchridge and Mianne for info, though Mianne has not responded back yet. I like the look of Sievers work. Has anyone here used Benchridge?
Fascia and curtains? That’s possible, but not for everybody. I was thinking of screwing the backside of the shelf benchwork to the wall and using nice triangle shaped brackets every 32 or 48 inches to hold up the front. Wouldn’t use typical metal shelf brackets or angle irons, but more decorative custom wooden jobs that could be stained or painted to match the room’s trim. No legs on the layout.
Don’t know if the kit manufacturers offer this type of set up as an option. Don’t see why they wouldn’t if they already have the tools to fabricate the brackets.
I can build benchwork just fine, but making about a dozen or more nice wooden brackets out of furniture grade plywood might not turn out like I had hoped.
I have Sievers and chose it for similar reasons to those mentioned above regarding pre-fab: time savings, lack of proper tools and space for them (layout is in a finished room), lack of interest in making benchwork and in my case, probably lack of skill to do the best job (at least without taking forever).
My experience with Sievers is similar to Wayne’s. And it is quite rugged and stable with or without a top; all members are 1x4s; the framing joists are typically 12" o.c., which is probably overkill; some smaller sections are 16" vs. 12". They advertise #2 pine, but the material I received is almost #1 with very few small, tight knots, all members true and straight, sanded and with eased edges.
I have seen Mianne at a show and considered it, but decided the Sievers is more rugged.
Dante
PS. You can build it with a solid top or as an open grid with risers or both.
I’ve used Sievers benchwork in modules and a layout and would highly recommend them. The product is top notch as are the people. They will even work with you on custom sizes as long as you don’t get too exotic.
What type of benchwork are you building? wood, foam, grid, L-girder, flat plywood, cookie cutter, mix??
Does the added effort come from the substructure or the roadbed?
Alan
Hey Alan,
I am building an around the walls layout with a center peninsula that is about 24’x5’ and a 9 track staging yard in an adjacent room. The peninsula, long and narrow as it is will have a total of three levels. A lower level 2 track dedicated subway line, a two track line with reverse to accommodate commuters and inter city trains and then a two track line which will be mostly at grade for freight traffic. The layout is basically urban and the peninsula supports the display running of my trains which I enjoy.
The bench work is wood, with a mix of L-girder and cookie cutter. The sub roadbed is 3/4" plywood.
I will try to choose my words very carefully here – although there is always the possibility of miscommunication. If your primary consideration is getting it done fast – that is, the total span of elapsed time between deciding that you’re going to build benchwork and having something standing up in your layout room that you can put your subroadbed and terrain base on – I think there is a false attraction to the prefab products. PROVIDED you have the skills, tools, and yes, somewhere you can make a mess, you could decide what you wanted to build tonight, hit the lumber yard first thing tomorrow morning, and have your benchwork up and assembled by Sunday evening. No matter who you ordered from, you wouldn’t even have commercial benchwork shipped by then, let alone assembled.
But I recognize that this is not the only consideration. You invest a lot less of your own effort in the project using the commercial stuff, and that’s a huge attraction to many, especially if money is no object and you’re not confident in your skills. Once you get it, you can have it assembled in an afternoon even if you don’t know a miter from a bevel. And you don’t need any tools beyond a screwdriver and maybe an adjustable wrench.
I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, trying to imply that building your own is the only way to go or trying to talk you into doing it. Just pointing out that saying you want to get past the "be
It seems to me the only part saved by buying ready made bench work is buying the materials and cutting them to specifications. In this modern day and age a lot of folks do not have any power tools or skill to use them. If you possess the skill to build a model you should also possess the skills to cut and measure to build bench work. Many folks just happen to be intimidated by the construction process and have no knowledge of proper fastening techniques or reinforcing methods to handle the weight and stress that benchwork will be subject to.
If you happen to feel it is beyond your skill set to build the bench work then it likely will be difficult for you to do so and you might as well buy something. My choice would be to build it myself but I may have different life experiences than you and I already possess tools needed for the job. I would say there is no shame or judgement intended regardless of your choice as some of the model building I have seen is beyond my skill level so I buy and don’t build other than kits most of those. One thing that building your own bench work will do is grant you better control over the thickness and shape so as to allow better control over the final product.
I must be missing something here. The manufactured benchwork is just the substructure. You still need to design, acquire cut or fabricate and install the subroad bed, bench top, and scenery supports. If you are doing a cookie cutter approach you have to cut it out. Seems to me that the manufactured benchwork is best suited to those who will accept a less flexible butt joint type construction and use foam to build up the scenery and track support and will trade money for their time (a 2x12 bench layout from one manufacturer is about $350 vs. $90 if you buy and cut your own lumber). As pointed out, it is a personal choice.
While it seems to have fallen (somewhat) out of favor, the L-Girder approach advocated by Linn Wescott is see3ms simple and doesn’t require a wood working shop (no offense intended LION), just a hand saw (although a power saw would speed things up) and a power screw driver (which can accept bits for drilling pilot holes). The rest of the tools (level, clamps, screw driver, etc) are required for any system.
I have the time, skill, and equipment (well did. I’m an apartment dweller right now) to build anything i want to build. But I go to Ikea to buy a bookshelf because just because I can build a bookshelf, I don’t enjoy it. Prefab components are of repeatable quality with minimal effort and, you’d hope, accurately and precisely made. If I was filling a basement with simple grid benchwork for a shelf layout, I’d probably go prefab too.
Here is my benchwork. Put together with 1"x 4"s using lap joints quickly made on the radial arm saw. It is strong enough to hold me and anyone else that would climb up on it and do a jig. It sure isn’t pretty though, but it is gradually disappearing beneath the world I am creating. I really enjoyed putting it all together.
Here is some benchwork I built for the wife’s dogs to lay on. A job that was easy to do, but I would rather have hired someone to do it. However I don’t like people working on my house as they never seem to do as good a job as I would have done. I think we put more effort into things when it is our own.
The house behind the deck needed painting. I HATE painting so much that even though I am retired, have all the time in the world and would do a better job than anyone I could hire, I still paid someone to do it. Just because I could.
I have no problems with someone getting part or all of a layout professionally done. You can even get someone to run the trains for you if you’re so inclined. Whatever floats ones boat is fine by me.
Depending on the situation, there may also be a solution using non-bench work for your bench work. What I mean by this is using things like bookcases and or storage shelving as a replacement for “proper” bench work.
You loose a lot in terms of flexibility, but in the right circumstance, this can be an affordable, easy alternative.
I personally ended up buying GORM shelving from Ikea to support my sectional layout, as I was able to acquire that easily locally, and the mess factor was minimal.
If folks are interested, I have more info on this up on the web, but I’m afraid if I link to my blog the moderators will remove it. Instead, you can get there via my personal website http://garbo.org/MRR/ Follow the menu options to Layout, and than Barre Branch for the blog posts and an article on using the Ikea product.
There are three things I don´t like in model railroading:
building benchwork
soldering
ballasting track
If I had the space for a larger layout (and the necessary funds for it), buying pre-fab benchwork would certainly be an option for me. As I don´t have that space, I build a mini-modular N scale layout which I have put up on a cheap and simple shelf, consisting of metal racks, brackets and ready-made boards.
Quick & dirty, but efficient.
This is all the carpentry I have to do for a mini-module:
I get the plywood cut to size at my local home improvement place, just apply glue to the top of the short pieces, make sure it´s all square and put some nails into it! Takes me 5 minutes…
Now, about soldering and ballasting - I use Kato´s Unitrack with clip-on feeder wires - no soldering! But when it comes to ballasting I have to bite the bullet. Although Unitrack has some plastic ballast shoulder, it looks awkward, so I have to paint the track and re-ballast it. Not my favorite task, though…
