Pullman HW Pullman and Parlor Car Plans

I am in the process of completing my roster of HW Pullmans that operated on the New Haven in the transition era, roughly 1936 to 1956. I have purchased what Walthers and Branchlline cars are compatible, but they only offer a meager selection.

I would like to use the Riverossi 12-1 Pullman as a core kit per the advice of New England Rail Service and use their window and door and other parts to kit bash specific Pullman Plan number cars.

Can anyone furnish the URL to a Pullman historical web site where I can research these cars?

The NH Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment might have a few helpful photos for you. Another book is the Passenger Cars of the New Haven Railroad. Both of these can be bought through the NH RR Historical and Technical Association, http://www.nhrhta.org.

As someone who is building a PRR PS124 sleeper from Rivarossi parts… I recommend starting with a Train Station Products core kit. Don’t bother with the Rivarossi floor-it’s more trouble than it’s worth. The TSP core kit has a smooth floor, without the molded-in details. Cut the Rivarossi sides off the car, modify them, then glue the finished sides onto the TSP core kit.

As for floor plans, the NHRHTA should be able to point you in the right direction.

Thanks for the good advice.

I have those books. There are very few photos and no plans. I need the floor plans and the photos and/or drawings of both sides.

I have posted this question on the NHRHTA forum with little success other than to buy the Rivarossi 12-1 (which Walthers does not list) and the Nedw England Rail Products parts for whatever doors and windows I might need.

They also suggested that I buy the Branchline sides and cut them up. Would this work with the Train Station Core kits?

I plan to make two sides for each Pullman Plan number that I need and then make resin castings in RTV molds to make the quantity I want.

I have seen reference to a web site that has all of the Pullman plans and photos but I have googled myself weary and can’t find it.

I don’t know of any websites with Pullman car plans. There have been some books published that included interior schematics etc. for Pullman and other passenger cars however.

I see that your looking for NH diagrams but a lot of the HW pullmans were standard models used on many railroads. So, a PRR HW pullman plan might be the same for the NH. Go to this site www.rr-fallenflags.org scroll down throught the list of railroads click on Pennsylvania, then scroll down to and click on Passenger Information. At the bottom of that list click on Passenger Equipment Diagrams. You’ll find plans for all of PRR passenger equipment & you might just find what you’re looking for. You can go back & look under New Haven but I don’t think they supply diagrams. At any rate, the site has some great pics from tons of railroads past & present. Hope that helps and best of luck with that kit bash…John

I’m not sure of the exact address but try something like pullmanproject.com or pullmanproject.org. They have all(?) the Pullman maintainence records which give AC type, and such. I haven’t visited it in about a year and at that time it was still a work in progress and they were adding data regularly. I couldn’t find any plans or side elevations but that might be more indicitive of my (highly limited) computer skills than their available data.

I cant remember who has that website. I know it isnt John Madden. I’ll probably think of it later but right now my brain is thumping like a tom-tom. I have a headache…

There were no plans or photos for HW pullman sleepers and parlors that I could find on either of those web sites that I could find. They were such a large part of so many railroads consists in the thirties and forties, I can’t undersstand why there is so little infomation available about them.

This the list that operated on the New Haven:

PULLMAN-SLEEPING-CARS-NEW-HAVEN-OWNERSHIP------

7-HEAVYWEIGHT-12S-DR-CARS-------------------------------
700---------Anatok---------------------E-----------55-56
701---------East-Columbia--------------E-----------55-56
702---------Israel-Putnam----------------I-----------Spare
703---------John-Winthrop----------------I-----------Spare
704---------St.-Leonards---------------I-----------Spare
705---------St.-Nicholas---------------I-----------Spare
706---------Surinam--------------------E---------173-172
1-HEAVYWEIGHT-14S—CAR---------------------------------
710---------New-Franklin---------------MB----------Spare
4-HEAVYWEIGHT-10S-DR-2Cp-CARS---------------------------
720---------Fort-Riley-----------------I------168-99-187
721---------Fostoria-------------------I------99-187-168
722---------Pasadena-------------------I-------------2-3
723---------Pueblo---------------------I-------------2-3
3-HEAVYWEIGHT-8S-DR-3DB-CARS----------------------------
730---------Bok-Tower------------------MB--------172-173
731---------Breslin-Tower--------------MB--------172-173
732---------Victoria-Tower-------------I---------186-187
2-HEAVYWEIGHT-8S-5SB—CARS-----------------------------
743---------Orchard-Dale---------------I---------124-125
749---------Orchard-Gardens------------I---------124-125
10-HEAVYWEIGHT-14SB-CARS--------------------------------
750---------Night-Cove-----------------M-------------2-3
751---------Nightfall------------------I-- --------Spare
752---------Nightglen------------------I-----------Spare
753---------Night-

Tom Madden posted drawings for the floor plans of 5 Pullman Parlor cars that operated on the New Haven on the NHRHTA forum. They were for plan numbers 2416-A,B,C,D. 2417 A,B,C,D. 3416, 3916, AND 3917. From these it will be easy to draw the elevations for both sides using standard Pullman dimensions. See New England Rail Service for windows and doors.

www.newenglandrail.com/

These appear to be Pullman Company drawings so I assume that there must be a source for the sleepers somewhere.

If any of you want these for either the New Haven or your railroads use go to:

http://www.nhrhta.org/

Click on Forum

It should work just fine. Make sure everything is square before you glue it though. I used Rivarossi parts, since Branchline’s sides didn’t have the correct window arrangement.

I’d just use the Branchline kit in its entirety (modifying the windows using the NERS parts) - the kit does go together nicely. The Train Station Products core kit won’t have the right ends or sill for a HW car.

The Rivarossi cars are out of proportion - they are too tall. It will be noticeable when they are in a train with the correctly proportioned Walthers and Branchline models.

Thank You Eddie, for the good advice.

I just received my Branchline 14 section Plan Number 3958-A Pullman Kit, only one of which was operated by the New Haven named the New Franklin.

This is a Class A kit in every respect except for the trucks which I will replace.

If you go to the Pullman Project

http://www.pullmanproject.com/

and click on the Bachman, Branchline, and Riverossi comparison you will see why Branchline is the best start for this project.

I was not aware that the NERS windows and doors were compatible with Branchline as a core kit since they mention Rivarossi as compatible with their parts. If not, I will be buying Branchline sides to cut them up to model the various models I need.

I have scaled the Tom Madden Parlor diagrams to HO and will copy them to my CAD software which will enable me to draw the various Parlor car sides following the window locations on the floor plans.

There is an article by Steve Hoxie in January issue of “The Keystone Modeler” ( http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler_PDFs/TKM%20No.%2042%2001-07%20PDF.pdf ) about building a Parlor car from a Branchline 6-3 Pullman using NERS windows. The details in there might be useful for your project?

What’s the problem you’re finding with the Branchline trucks? I’ve built two of their kits and haven’t had any real problems with the trucks - with a bit of patience they build into a nice, accurate model (the Walthers trucks aren’t quite as accurate, as I understand it).

Thanks a mil. I will download that. I checked with the NERS site and they specifically say that their parts fit the Rivarossi 12-1 Pullman. Judging from the compariosn in the Pullman Project I have a hunch they would be too tall to match the Branchline sides.

Internet Trains www.internettrains.com/ has Branchline parts in stock for only $2.53 for a pair of sides for several differant configurations , several roofs and body cores.

I bought a selection of these which I can cut bash to make about any plan number car I need.

I haven’t assembled the trucks. I am prejudiced against plastic trucks, preferring metal with metal wheels but I will give them a try. Long ago, I made lost wax castings of truck sideframes in low temp and type metal. Type metal is nice because it is designed to expand slightly when it cools. I made an RTV mold and cast the parts in paraffin and then encased them in plaster of paris. After baking the wax out and letting the plaster dry out very nice castings can be made that way.

That article seems to be just what I am looking for. Unfortuately, I wasn’t able to download it for some reason.

Would it possible to to forward the file to my e-mail address?

eaincometaxpre@aol.com

Russell E. Owen, EA

On its way!

The following URLs will lead you to two databases on the subject.

Thje first is the official Pullman Company source records which are now in the Newberry Library in Chicago:

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/cdm4/index_nby_pullman.php?CISOROOT=/nby_pullman

The other one is the Pullman Project, which is a Database based on the first collection, augmented by other sources.

http://www.pullmanproject.com/Database.htm