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Pullman service to Lake Placid proposed
A few weeks ago the Albany Times Union endorsed the rail-to-trail plan calling the idea of restoring the tracks to Lake Placid a “train to nowhere”.
I’m glad that Iowa Pacific thinks differntly, if the Reno Fun Train can work, why not a train to the site of two Olympic Games, which sees many thousands of vistors each year.
The TU’s endorsment discounted the facts and figures of a independent non-partisian study dome my proffessional engineering and economic development consultant firms, and instead embraced the study done by a pro-bike group which produces pro-bike studies on converting railways to bike trails.
The TU repeated the claim that “scrapping the rails” would pay for the entire 90-mile trail, a lie exposed by the cyclist’s own study which lists all the goverment grants availble for bike trails.
In fact both the non-partisian study and pro-bike study stated it would take many millions more to build the trail. The Non-partisian study gave the trail option a slight edge in economic impact, but did not consider the possibility of charter or intercity trains, only tourist trains.
I hope we see more action, these carazy bike nuts need to be stopped! There are plenty of unfinished bike trails in New York as it is, including the Erie Canal Trailway system.
How is it that the tourist operators can come up with these great ideas and Amtrak can’t?
This might just save the infrastructure. There has been a lot of pressure to turn the roadbed into snowmobile trails.
I like trails but More jobs in a quality rail line
Nice thought. But, it is not going to be profitable enough to sustain itself. New York will tax them out of business in less than two years. This is assuming they can get off the ground, which in the current economic climate is just about impossible.
And of course the same equipment can be used for NYC - Cape Cod service in the summer!
The Yuppies and NIMBYs will win. Great idea, though.
Must it be one or the other? Why not a trail next to the rail line, that way everybody would be happy.
Snowmobile groups often use greatly inflated figures of economic impact when wanting to destroy a rail line for their trails. In truth, most snowmobilers are local people, who might stop for pie and coffee while riding, but do not produce the millions in hotel and restaurant business they claim. Too many groups today have the notion that railroads are obsolete and many shipping managers don’t even consider using rail transportation. The major railroads often aren’t interested in new business, and sometimes discourage potential shippers, even when approached by the shippers themselves. I saw plenty of it in the 30 years I worked for them.
If there is a real market for this type of service, it should not need money from the government – which the government does not have anyway.
Don’t blame Yuppies because the snow mobile crowd is often a bunch of good old boys that get the highest powered machines they can get and love to 70+ MPH on the trails. The hate any cross country skiers or snow shoe users and will run you down and take off. If you have a snow drought winter like last winter the snow mobile dealers start begging for state help because they are going broke. It happens here in New Hampshire every year with feast or famine for the winter snow related industry.
Iowa Pacific is not your average tourist operator but rather a genuine rail company. They operate passenger & freight trains all over the world. Mr. Ellis is an astute businessman and an excellent manager. Iowa Pacific can make it work at a profit and for the enjoyment of many more just snowmobilers, skiers & hikers. The rail project should be supported.
Amtrak has all they can do just to run the trains they have and that is a whole other issue.
To answer Mr. Norton’s question, Ed Ellis is a visionary. Most folks in government, or associated with government like Joe Boardman, seem to view things in a confining mode.
With regard to the rails versus trails issue, except for constraints such as cliffs and tunnels, I find it hard to believe that trails and rails cannot exist side by side with a safety fence installed. On lightly travelled lines, freight traffic would generally run at night and passenger/excursion service would be scheduled during the day.
I am one of the trail proponents, but also a Trains reader and later subscriber since 1965. The $43 million figure comes from the NYS Dept. of Transportation web site. Experience with the actual cost of restoration since 1992 (when current restoration efforts began) would confirm this higher figure rather than the $20 million low-end figure.
While Lake Placid has hosted two Olympics, it is still a town of less that 5,000 at the end of a circuitous 140 mile route from the nearest Amtrak service in Utica - also not a major population center. Lake Placid does get a fair number of tourist visitors, but nearly every activity that attracts those visitors requires a car once here. Additionally, rail travel from the Albany/Capital region, the nearest major population center, would be over 100 miles longer and about twice as long as driving or taking the bus. The travel time ratio is only slightly better when calculated from NYC or Buffalo.
There are no on line industries and virtually no chance that any would start up with rail service. I therefore do not think that New York taxpayers should spend $43 million to restore track that will likely only be used by the occasional excursion train. If New York should decide to spend that amount to improve Adirondack rail service, investing in better signaling and longer sidings on the CP line along Lake Champlain would be very beneficial in helping that Amtrak service improve its speed and on time performance.
The Times-Union was in error when it said rail salvage would pay for the entire trail. It would only pay for the section to Tupper Lake from Lake Placid for bicycling; but snowmobilers would benefit from an extended season over the line from Thendara to Lake Placid. The trail proposal does not extend to Utica, so that service, which may indeed be profitable, will remain between Utica and Thendara/Old Forge.
I think it’s a great idea. And Richard Andre’s idea is good. I keep reading that route 6 on the Cape gets more jammed every summer. The idea of the train should be taken advantage of.
Another pipe dream, New York does not have the money. If private business wants to do it, fine but that will never happen
Here we go again with trails versus rails partisans. Let’s recall the ridiculous similar fracas awhile back involving the former WM corridor between Frostburg and Hagerstown, MD. “The Western Maryland Scenic Railway would have to go away for a trail replacement,” but cooler heads wisely prevailed and a smart compromise combining railroad and trail was reached.
I am one of many growing increasingly angry with “the tyranny of the few” wars that these strident trails from rails super-environmentalist zealots are waging. They need to grow up and learn that others do not share their opinions or “needs.” They should learn that respect and cooperation go a long, long way to making a lot more people happy.
In my humble opinion, “rails to trails” is a classic example of “use it or lose it.” Once you pull rails out, the NIMBYs take over and fight tooth and nail. I wish the Pullman concept well - in the North Country and elsewhere - and yes, in the current political climate the jobs argument as well as getting cars off the road might stick a stick in the spokes of the cyclists and hikers.
I’ll take rails over trails any day…