With droughts in the Southern States have there been any Pure Water Tank Car Trains moving around the country?
What about the possibility of the railroad right of way being a location for water pipelines from the ocean to far inland water treatment and distribution plants.
Andrew
I don’t think so, simply because there are no places designed to load and unload water from tank cars, and no tank cars devoted to water service. Desalinization of sea water is very expensive and the water would be useless in the desert if not treated. Municipalities only consider pipelines when water projects are discussed, because in most cases there is no rail line between them and their potential water source.
There have been water tank cars in the past–I remember seeing some NATX tank cars stencilled as leased to Mountain Valley Water into the 80s.
I wonder whether excess snow from some ares that get too much in winter could be shipped south and the meltwater used to aid in drought alleviation (might be another source of revenue for the all-rail route to Alaska!). But, having been out west earlier in the year, I get the feeling that it would be virtually impossible to run enough trains (assuming you could fill them) to do something like, say, bring Lake Mead up to its normal level.
Eureka Springs AR shipped water in tank cars on Arkansas & Ozark RR shortline which interchanged with the SL&SF at Seligman MO. Also ice was produced and shipped. On the History Channel’s “Trains Unlimited” series, AT&SF delivered water to tanks in the desert.
Thanks.
Sometimes in some places water can become a valuable commodity if it is scarce enough.
In another thread there is a mention that the Southern Pacific, now Union Pacific, have been moving water to a town in California.
Andrew
While some water is better than no water, we use it in such huge quantities that even unit trains of water would be only a limited resource.
A 100 car train of 30,000 gallon tank cars would carry 3,000,000 gallons of water. One site I found, for the city of Spokane, WA, (pop. 195,629) said the city uses between 30,000,000 and 160,000,000 gallons a day, depending on the season.
Thus, to provide an extreme example, providing all of Spokane’s water by rail would require the arrival and unloading of some 50 water trains a day…
In one of life’s nastier ironies the floods this summer in the Tewksbury area of Gloucestershire (Western England) damaged the water treatment works leaving many residents with no drinkable water. A train carrying bottled water from Scotland (c 300 miles) was run to deliver drinking water to the people left without a good supply. Very much a one off though.
I have a vague – and quite possibly incorrect – recollection that at one point Coors was running a train of water to supply a brewery so that they could still claim that Rocky Mountain spring water was used?
Wort…and they still do.(to Norfolk, VA) …and then there’s the source of that Rocky Mountain Spring Water[:-^]
While it might be possible to take excess from one area to another, that will just leave that area short in the long run. If you take water from one watershed for another, it will never get back to the original watershed. The more and more this occurs, the more and more of an imbalance there will be.
This is an issue facing the great lakes states. Our water levels are at record lows, particularly Lake Superior, which supplies all the other great lakes. It just hit it’s lowest record level since they started keeping track more than a century ago. Those in the dry southwest states think we have an endless supply, but that is not the case. Once again, if they start taking out water, how do they plan to replace it?
If the southwest is where you chose to live, then that is something you will just have to deal with. It is a desert out there, so it shouldn’t come as a suprise that water is in short supply.
Atlanta in the news today. Those tricky Floridians are taking water for their mussels.
Read all about it.
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2007/10/16/waterbill_1017.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab
Larry,
That is great math on the amount of water consumed.
Andrew
I figure that if a railroad was going to transport water in such mass quantities as was exemplified by Larry, they would just build a massive pipeline within their r/w limits the entire length of the route vs. using trains. Railroads have been in the water business before and serve as local utility providers in some parts of the country, out West I believe.
I believe that a pipeline would be more efficient, cost-effective and above all else…safer. On smaller scale, as in the Coor’s Beer example, a train would certainly be the best choice.
Reminds me of the situation up here in Green Bay. Some years ago the suburbs around GB (total population in the 100,000 range) started talking about drawing water from Lake Michigan (the bay itself is too polluted) and asked about tapping into GB’s pipeline that was built 20 years earlier (so no watershed depletion problems here). Then, of course, there was time while five different cities, towns and villages decided what they needed, what they could afford, when they could afford it, who to get it from and how to connect it all up.
“Hmm” says I, “why not take advantage of the water crib already located off Kewaunee, the rail line to which city has been moribund since the carferrys stopped hauling railcars, and arrange some rail carried water supply? Either the communities singly or together, some sort of water authority or the city of Green Bay (if they took on the role of wholesaler) could buy or lease the cars and assume the upfront costs. Equipment would only need to be purchased as demand was established and grew. Granted, the line would have to be rebuilt but the distance is short (under 50 miles) and round trip time would be minimal, making for a higher productivity. There is almost no other traffic so capacity wouldn’t be a problem and we get to save a part of the Kewaunee, Green Bay and Western.”
But, alas, it was not to be. While everyone studie
The rates we pay for water and sewer in Atlanta are really low compared to the west. Maybe we need more steeply graduated rate???
Be careful what you ask for.
Since I live on the North Coast, I know this subject pops up every now and again. A few years back, there was discussion of building a pipeline from Lake erie to the southern and southwestern states. It caused quite a bit of concern for the Canadian Government. Out of it arose a treaty between the U.S. and Canada about artificially lowering the level of the Great Lakes,by pumping water to drought afflicted areas. In other words, we can’t lower our sides without lowering theirs. Aint gonna happen. Hate to sound like a spoilsport, but the water up here is our resource. R Staller
Why not pipe the water from the Oceans along the railroad right of way. Filter out the salts and other minerals along the way in multiple step processes. Sell the salts and minerals as a commodity. Deliver pure water to the destination in the pipeline or in a tank car.
Andrew
It’s not a matter of filtering…the salts are dissolved in the water, and therefore must be removed by either reverse osmossis or by evaporation.
Desalination (by either method) is pretty energy intensive (read “expensive”) It has been done in the middle east where there is lots of oil, by countries with lots to spare. And, I believe that Israel gets most of its drinking water via de-salination.
The market for the solids (salts and minerals, which then would have to be seperated) would most likely have to be developed, until then you have to dispose of them. Let me know when you get your permit from the EPA…
Not to mention the cost of building and operating the pipelines. One interesting aspect of pipeline for water is dwell time…after so long in a pipe, water from a drinking water plant must be retreated before consumption…and if you dont treat it before putting it into the pipeline, you will have green slimey things clogging up your pipe before long.
Which makes it all a great challenge for an entrepenure to undertake!
Do not know if they still have a filling operation at this location, but at one time, Coor’s maintained a bottling operation for their East Coast distribution network, right out side of Harrisonburg, Virginia, off I-81, north end of Shenandoah Valley area.
It was supplied with product, packaging supplies, and the other necessities out of the Golden, Colo.