If I understand things correctly, the Rock Island terminated at an SP interchange in Tucumari, NM. If the ICC in the 1970s decided to wave a magic wand and make it happen, could the Rock Island have been extended (via trackage rights or outright seizure of SP lines) to a Pacific Ocean port, and which one(s) would have been opened to it? Could the latter be done without irrevocably breaking the SP system?
Thanks for any information.
Well, the first question that pops into my mind is money. The Rock wasn’t in great financial shape by the 1970’s and I don’t think that obtaining more trackage would have helped the financial burden. The added operating costs would have also added to the price tag. If the Rock wanted the ICC to wave a “magic wand” anywhere in the 1970’s and make it all better, then it probably would have been over the declining property that they already had .
CC
And the ICC did approve Union Pacific’s takeover bid of Rock Island in 1974. This would have seen the southern portion of the Rock Island sold to Southern Pacific. There were so many other protective features of this plan that Union Pacific walked away from the deal in 1975 leading to the Rock Island’s final bankruptcy.
Another aspect is the SP. It is hard to imagine now, but the SP was a jugernaught of railroading in the early 70s. It would have been in a much better position to buy the Rock than vice versa.
Gabe
Interesting speculation, What if…The’Rock’ had survived… Tucumcari to Memphis[via trackage rights across the Mississippi R. via Mop to terminate on the IC.] I can’t speak to its west-end, but at Memphis it was pretty well connected [IC, NC&StL,L&N(CSX), Frisco(BN,BNSF),MoPac(UP).]
Not to mention the connections south out of Little Rock and Pine Bluff into Louisiana. It was a shame to allow it to deteriorate, and ultimately, to be scrapped and’parted out. What would the railroad maps look like today, if an SP, or UP, or Santa Fe had picked up the Rock when it was around its prime years. I know the upper midwest was a traffic mess, but the southern end of its ops could have presented another east-west route when folded inot someone else’s system.
I agree. I have heard from some fairly reputable sources that BNSF would love to have had the Rock’s Memphis line now.
Gabe
One possibility would have been for the Rock Island to sell their lines south of Topeka to Southern Pacific and acquire the D&RGW and the WP. They would have been a Transcon between Oakland and Chicago and St. Louis.
An interesting proposition, but RI between Chicago and Denver would definitely have been the slow route compared to CB&Q and UP/C&NW and RI’s Chicago connections to Eastern roads were worse than those of either CB&Q or C&NW. RI’s St. Louis-Kansas City line was already in abominable shape and in any event a connection to the East at St. Louis would have been redundant with a Chicago connection in place.
That’s a great what-if proposal. If it actually came to pass, the Rock would have had a tough time competing against the one railroad who owned its own Chicago to Pacific line: Santa Fe.
Gabe mentioned the BNSF wanting the Memphis line: it’s my understanding that the Santa Fe actually did express a strong interest in obtaining the OK City - LR - Memphis portion of the Rock around the shutdown. But the MP came in and bought the line and then abandoned it so the SF could not get it. May be fact, maybe not…I didn’t live here at the time…but several folks have explained it to me that way. Someone is welcome to refute that if it’s wrong. But many times in the last few years I’ve heard people say “what if” the BNSF was now running through Little Rock to Memphis and how cool that would have been. Nothing against the UP or MP…business is business.
Sort of off topic, but the Golden State sure made for one heck of a good looking passenger train.
One Track Mind: It is a fact. It was called Sunbelt & Santa Fe Railway…(and it was also tied to the KC-St.L line as well, under slightly altered auspices)
The Rock was really hosed by the SP.
Back then, there were auto plants on the west coast. SP served the plants. The auto parts rode west from the midwest in boxcars suplemented with TOFC. The SP wouldn’t take a CRIP-Tucumcari-SP routing on this lucrative freight. Nope, they had to get their “long haul” which cut the Rock out entirely.
Daily parts trains came out of Michigan to the ICG at Markham. We’d put them together over the hump and run to the SP at E. St. Louis. Then the SP would taken 'em down to San Antonio before heading west to the southern California assembly plants. It was several hundred extra miles with no extra revenue. But the SP got its “long haul” and a congested main line though Texas. The Golden State Route withered.
It made no sense. But we didn’t complain at the ICG. We were in a lucrative move. Just shut up and move the freight. The SP had to be the worst managed railroad I’ve ever seen.
Sometime you need to explain to me why the IC did not route those trains through Springfield. Were they trying to get a longer haul as well?
Gabe
No, you didn’t get a bigger “division” of the through rate because you took a longer internal route.
We took the trains through Du Quoin because that route provided much better access to the SP’s yard. Otherwise the trains were subject to significant delay getting though the E. St. Louis terminal trackage. And auto parts are “time sensative” freight.
Thanks, and I am sorry, as I now realize you already told me this once, after I read your answer.
Gabe
Actually the Rock Island had very good connections to eastern roads in the Chicago terminal.
At Blue Island the Rock delivered directly to the B&O at Barr Yard and NYC at IHB’s Blue Island yard and the the GTW at their Blue Island yard. All of these did have a short back up move off the elevation then pulled ahead to each yard.
At South Chicago there were direct connections with the PRR,C&O (Pere Marquette district), NKP. The Rock delivered to the EL at Hammond (a run thru train for awhile) until they closed that yard.
These connections are why train 57 worked for the Rock Island, they had the auto parts from GTW, C&O, B&O blocked and moving out of town before the CB&Q and CNW had even received their cars from the IHB/B&OCT.
I appreciate the answers that have come out of my question, but I’m still left—probably my fault—wondering about my original question. Let me try and restate it so that it’s more plain:
If the ICC could wave a magic wand and give the Rock enough of the SP to get from Tucumari to the nearest major Pacific port city in California, where would that be? Furthermore, would doing so inflict mortal harm upon the SP by giving away a vital main line, or not?
*Assume for the sake of this question that the Rock is financially solvent and is in sufficient material condition to exploit this. We’re departing from reality from the get go, so don’t worry too much about the nitty-gritty.
You could have given the Tucumcari to El Paso line to the CRI&P without harming the SP. Missouri Pacific also reached El Paso, and that didn’t do them any good.
There was/is only one line from El Paso to Los Angeles, and the SP had to have it or they would have been split in two.
No, the ICC could not have done that. It didn’t have that authority. And why on earth would anyone want to do that anyway? Reward one of the worst-managed railroads in the West while punishing one of the best-managed railroads in the West? How would that serve the public interest?
The law allowed mergers that consolidated duplicate trackage or mergers that protected service to the customers of a poor railroad by merging it with a rich one. It law did not allow government seizure of assets of one railroad to give to another railroad.
S. Hadid