I asked this question in the general section but it was suggested that I repost it here.
I would be interested in hearing comments about the quality of the Lionel train sets that are sold in the big box stores such as Target, Menards, Hobby Lobby, etc. in respect to those sold by other sources.
Thanks
TMT
Pretty much the same as those sold by hobby shops, except for a less hefty transformer. The cataloged PRR Flyer has a CW80 transformer while the Menard’s C&NW steam set has a smaller transformer. Otherwise identical.
My only complaint is the “Lionel you left me hanging CW80 transformer” from the Wisconsin Central set in 2005.
Thanks for responding.
Is the smaller transformer as “good” as the regular one?
I have had the impression that the CW80 transformer has a “love-hate” following from what little I have read here.
Also what is considered to be a good price for these kits?
Thanks
TMT
I have had the impression that the CW80 transformer has a “love-hate” following from what little I have read here.
Early CW80’s were a disaster but my partner just picked up a Hogwarts and he’s raving about the transformer. He’ll be bringing it into the shop for me to fiddle with.
Don’t know anything about the smaller version for Big Box Sets. So far the BB passenger set has been given the razz for no lights. And I got a Macy’s Sale ad which said discounts don’t apply to Lionel. Since your Mail Order Train dealers normally discount starter sets I can’t think of any reason not to buy from one of the advertisers in CTT. Same set, less cost[:D]
The CW-80 transformers have been revised and supposedly, are now reliable.
Jim
I purchased a Menards passenger set this year. The transformer has worked fine for me. My only wish (since its Christmas time, I won’t say complaint) is that it have accessory posts. The transformer only has variable voltage for the track.
Quality wise the sets offered by Lionel at larger chains today are a tremendous leap forward compared to sets that Lionel used to sell through chains like Toys R Us from the 70’s through the early 90’s.
Too many of the sets that Lionel sold through Toys R Us where so cheap that even CTT questioned their play value when reviewing one such set, (The Black Cave Flyer If I remember correctly). These ultra cheap sets also hurt our hobby, as too many people would think thats what Lionel was at that time.
The sets today are identical to what Lionel sells through conventional channels, with some changes to transformers (as noted), and of course some unique rolling stock. The fact that Lionel uses it’s 2-4-2 die cast steam engine as the basic unit for these starter sets is a huge step in the right direction.
These sets are a crucial link to getting O gauge trains out to the masses.
Ken
I don’t know which smaller transformer is included, so I wont comment on that, but the CW-80 is a fine transformer if used for what it was intended for. This transformer was designed and intended to get a starter set running, or around the Christmas Tree or for a SMALL layout. It was never intended to be the sole power supply on a 300 square foot layout, that is the purpose of the ZW transformer. Toyota makes a FINE truck, but it is not up to the task of pulling a 36 foot fifth wheel trailer, that is what a one ton truck is for, same with the CW-80, use it for what it was designed for and you will be HAPPY with it.
The CW will handle a two motored LionMaster Bigboy or Challenger just fine, add 8 scale length Passenger cars with lights, that’s too much (Yes, I know from experience, now I have some ZW’s) On a larger layout the CW-80 still has plenty of uses, such as running a trolley line if you have one, or taking the accessories load off the larger running transformers. The CW really shines here because you not only can use the variable voltage output (normally used for track power) for adjusting the brightness of lighting such as buildings or street lights, but the fixed voltage output is also adjustable, which is good for powering switches with a constant voltage so that they snap open or closed quickly rega
Thanks for the info.
Do we know all the stores who actually sell Lionel starter kits?
I am aware of Menards, Target and Hobby Lobby…any others and what sets do they sell?
Another question…what would you suggest buying in addition to the basic sets? I have seen several expansion sets which include some rolling stock and miscellaneous stuff.
Track additions?..what kind and why? Most kids get bored watching a train going around in a circle. Any sugggestions as to what expanded layout would be good to pursue for the beginner.
Thanks
TMT
Think about getting some operating cars. Cars that either dump logs (fun) or coal (messy and fun), unloading milk cars, cattle cars, etc. These cars keep kids and adults interested.
Most operating cars need a special track to operate them remotely. So get an operating track.
Jim
TMT, you ask a lot of questions! But that’s okay because your questions are the kinds a newcomer asks.
Track types is a loaded question. Lionel is pushing their new FasTrack and that’s what comes with all their train sets now. Traditional 027 track is what previously came with most starter sets. 027 track is more affordable and allows more layout possibilities in a small space. This will limit the kinds of trains you can run though: some of the newer longer larger sized cars and locos won’t clear the boxes on the switches.
You could always save the FasTrack for a floor layout, or try to trade of sell it for 027 track if you want to save money in the long run, especially on switches. But FasTrack is okay and it does seem to be the new thing as far as buying Lionel starter sets goes.
There’s been some debate over the noise level of FasTrack. I’ll sum it up by saying it’s a matter of what your level of noise really is AND of what you use to build your layout surface and how you attach the track that will affect the noice. 027 track is loud too if screwed in to just bare plywood.
FasTrack only comes in the 36 inch radius at the smallest, so that can limit the kinds of layouts you can build in a small space, but it can be done. Check this link:
http://www.thortrains.net/marx/47fastrack1.html
I think you’ll like those illustrations… there’s the track plan and a 3-D illustration of what the layout could look like when you’ve finished. A big advantage of FasTrack is that it’s easy to set up a floor layout. Or building that first layout board, it’s pretty easy to change the layout as you get more track and switches.
Buying a couple starter sets is a great way to get going. Sure you get two locos (don’t kid yourself… you’ll run 'em both), but you get the extra cars, a second transformer (which can power accessories) and extra track. A Lionel Ex
They are.
Brianel027 said
FasTrack only comes in the 36 inch radius at the smallest, so that can limit the kinds of layouts you can build in a small space, but it can be done.
Small but possibly significant error.
The tightest curve in the current FasTrack system makes a circle 36 inches in diameter, not radius. I believe the diameter is measured center-rail to center-rail, so an actual circle of “036” FasTrack will have an overall outside diameter that is approximately three-and-one-half quarter inches larger, measured across the outer-most edges of the “ballast.”
Consider these data as “ballpark,” not gospel.
When planning a layout, one also needs to allow additional space for overhang which can be considerable with certain pieces of running gear.
Edited 12/12/07: Subsequent actual measurments confirmed that the “36” in 036 are inches measured across the diameter of a circle of FasTrack from center-rail to center-rail. The overall dimensions, which span the ballast, measure 39 and 1/2 inches.
Over the past several years Lionel has offered four small and annoyingly look-alike transformers, as follows:
BW-80: The controller box and the actual power “brick” were in two pieces, similar to the new ZW’s. Evidently these were reliable, but relatively few were ever produced.
The early CW-80: Virtually identical to the above (in the outward appearance of the controller box), both the controls and the power supply were in a single case. Quality control was very poor; but the biggest problem, even with those that weren’t dead-on-arrival, was that the red posts on the rear were common or “ground;” whereas the black posts were power: U-under-A for power to the track, and U-under B for power to accessories. These were the problematic ones, as they frequently got hooked up in such a way that the two “power” posts got shorted together somewhere on the layout.
The revised CW-80: Again, controls and power in one case; but now the black posts are common, and the red posts are power – A to the track and B to accessories. With only a few exceptions, these are very good transformers. I have never had any trouble using them to power Lionel equipment, but they don’t always work with certain products from other manufactures, especially some MTH.
The PowerMax: a misnomer if there ever was one. It can only deliver about 32 watts. From the front, it is virtually identical to the CW-80, and that’s the way it appears as pictured on set-boxes. Internally, and from the rear, it is much different. It has only two posts: one red, one black. There are no accessory posts. I believe that the “PowerMax” is only officially offered in certain sets. There have been numerous instances of people buying a set thinking they
Macy’s is selling the Pennsy Flyer, PE and Hogwart’s sets this holiday season- Lionel starter sets, but the better quality sets with a better engine and the newer CW-80. I picked up a PE set at their “One -day” sale last Saturday for 50% off (about $160), not a bad deal in my book.
Geno
Are the Fastrack rails made of nickel silver?
TMT
“The fact that Lionel uses it’s 2-4-2 die cast steam engine as the basic unit for these starter sets is a huge step in the right direction.”
Just a note: Lionel has not produced a 2-4-2 since the late 1980’s. I keep seeing this, and reference to “Scout” engines pop up, and for the life of me can’t figure out where it’s coming from! Anybody have the answer?
Jon [8D]
Jon,
I think people have just taken to calling any 2-4-2 Lionel starter set locomotive a Scout, in the same way they call all facial tissue Kleenex or all photo copies Xeroxes.
Jim
Correction, I should have said, 4-4-2 die cast steam engine, many of which, like the Pennsylvania Flyer engine use the same mold that the 2-4-2 die casts were made from.
My point was that this type of engine, now being Lionel’s “base” starter set engine is a huge leap over the cheap platic steam engines that Lionel was using in the starter sets not all that long ago.
The Menard’s WC Passenger Set engine is also a 4-4-2.
A nice shell for Lionel to use for these is the PW Prarie type steam engine last used in the PW era for the 2-6-4 2029, and then remade as a 4-4-2 in the MPC era.
Ken