Guys, I don’t even know enough about this subject to ask the question very well.
I have an old and dear friend that lives up North (Tampa area) and is building an early 20th century European civilian train. I think he is going to use this as wargaming terrain, but I am not sure.
He wants to paint it in colors that would be appropriate, but not necessarily 100% specific to a prototype.
I am going to send him a link to this thread.
Below is a picture of the train for this topic. It looks good to me as pictured, but I honestly have no idea if it is anywhere near correct. Can anyone help?
First, I am of the Sargeant Schultz variety and I know nothing. But, European railroads are kind of country-specific, so anything about what countries he’s modeling would help more than a geographic region. Also, the political landscape changed through the century as well, so a closer timeframe would also help.
Kevin kindly asked the above question for me and then directed me to this forum.
I am using the above in a Pulp Gaming system. The train would be based in North Africa from the late 1920s to 1930s.
I had planned on just doing the engine black it was really a no brainer. But the flat cars, passenger cars and there undercarrages were where my questions are.
Semi historical colors and any suggestions in model paint to achieve.
The Loco looks like a Hornby ‘Steam Punk’, not specifically any prototype, so it could be any colour. The 5-plank wagon is totaly non-descript and would be best left grey. The coach looks like a cross-between a LMS Brake-van with windows and a continental 4-wheel coach, so it could be brown or olive green. The Brake-van is a British Railways / London North Eastern 20Ton (i.e. a Caboose) so is circa 1950. The colour is correct, but the LNER ones were also light grey. Paul
Kevin. Do you know how old the items are. They look old. Certainly older than Hornby Steampunk.
I have looked at old catalogs of model trains by Bassett Lowke, Bing and Georges Carette without success. Having said that, I only looked at a few items from the Companies. The engine and carriage look (to me) of French or German origin. The brake van (caboose) and five plank wagon are British in design.
With no actual couplings present I assume they are three link couplings without the links which made me think of the three companies above. (All three worked for each other most of the time they were in production.)
If (and a big if) they are made by Bassett Lowke, Bing or Georges Carette they could be valuable. Then do not repaint them or whatever.
If they are ‘ordinary items’ then a desert sand coloring would be needed.
Found out a bit more. The models are current production. They are cast resin wargame pieces made by Sarissa Precision. They are 28mm scale, which is nominally 1/56.
This set is called the “European Locomotive Starter Set” in the catalogue.
Like I said, Thom just wants to be appropriate in the color choice. I know purple with neon green stripes is probably out.
[(-D]
I would assume olive greens, tans, and reddish browns would be OK choices, but I would like to be sure.
This is their version of an “Old West” locomotive.
I can’t see the pics (problem with this computer, not the post most likely) but I wanted to mention that in the ‘between the wars’ period much of Africa was still controlled by the European colonial powers, so I suspect the equipment, paint schemes, etc. would be based on which Europe country controlled that area. British colonial railways used UK equipment, German colonies used German equipment, etc.
Most of the western part of North Africa was controlled by France (Algeria, Mauritania) with a small part controlled by Spain (Morocco, Western Sahara), the eastern part (Egypt, Sudan) controlled by Britain, with a section between them controlled by Italy (Libya).
Sarissa Precision. An English Company. I have never heard of them before, but then they do Wargaming.
I cannot find any reference to the color of rolling stock in North Africa, but the locomotives look to be one color. Other rolling stock is lighter in color. Not much help I am afraid.
That’s a British locomotive and wagons. Round buffers are characteristic of UK goods wagons. Oval buffers appeared on main line passenger coaches. The one with verandas is a very old passenger carriage. The one with verandas and open platforms on each end is a brake van (guards van) found at the end of every goods train. Brake vans varied quite a lot in construction but all would have an open area for the brakeman (guardsman) to stand outside and keep an eye on things. The other is a general goods wagon often used to haul coal. I recall these latter two from my childhood trainspotting from the goods yard bridge.
You might plausibly find prototypes of these very approximate models anywhere in British Africa. Maybe not so much South Africa as they used a narrow gauge but in former German East Africa or in Egypt and adjoining countries or regions. And so on. Much of Africa formerly German became British after WWI.
British freight locomotives were most frequently black. Liveried passenger equipment specifically coloured for the particular domestic railway would not likely be that colour if exported to Africa. Likely colours used in Africa would be idiosyncratic.
Light grey and medium brown were very common paints for goods vans and wagons. Brake vans were quite commonly painted light grey. Passenger coaches that old would frequently be varnished wood. Red smoke deflectors would be rare or nonexistent in the UK but in Africa, who knows? These deflectors would not usually found on a 4-4-0 anyway. Too slow and low in height to need them.
Also, British Railways often painted passenger cars (“coaches” to them) different colors depending on class / purpose, so a 3rd class coach might be a different color from a 1st class coach.
The colors will be difficult to find and you may have to speculate. You might also want to be more specific: in Algeria, for example, there was a “state” railway, that was affiliated to the Paris-Lyon-Méditerranée railway:
So, one can suspect that the equipment used was manufactured in France, with similar colors. Apparently, les Batignolles, a famous French railway company that also manufactured Batignolles locos, was also active in North Africa:
