Question about curves & a 4x6 layout

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
1

Hello. We are brand new to MRR and we have a few questions.

I recently purchased a Bachmann Empire Builder HO set for my daughter. Also we had a friend give us a bunch of his old HO buildings/track/cars etc so we’re kinda vested with HO although we probably should have gone with an N setup. We only have room right now for a 4x6 layout in her room. The set came with 22" curves. My question is will the set run on 18" curves at all or are we stuck with a basic 22" oval? We wanted to maybe run a double loop folded 8 or something more interesting. Most of what I see in plans like that call for 18" curves.

I would appreciate any suggestions you guys could make.

Thanks,

Paul

2

I would be curious as to what kind of engine came with the set? An F diesel set? Also, if there are long passenger cars, they may not look good or run well on 18" curves. You could always just test it out…it’s all about how the locomotives and cars run and look on the sharper curves.

3

Hi Paul,

you probably bought the passenger set with long full body coaches. They might run on a 18" radius but will look rather ridiculous on it; that 22" radius is already pretty tight.

I very much doubt if you will succeed in getting a folded 8 into your space, an over and under crossing will be impossible; grades will be to severe. For a figure 8 BTW you need more space then two full circles, even with an 18" radius they take at least 2 x 36 + 4 = 76" for length, Those 4" are the needed space between the tracks and the edge. Eight feet seems the minimum length for such a plan.

this is a pretty old plan by Bob Hayden. The pictures he took of this little gem were awesome. Another plan i like for your space is the Gold Hill Central by Jim Kelly. Both are very well known and respected modelrailroaders.

Keep smiling

paul

4
  • Powered by a F7-A locomotive with operating headlight, and a F7-B locomotive per the Amazon.com description.
    We’re not too concerned about looks as much as will it derail all the time, which will ruin her fun.
5

Books are written about derailments. Maybe the information about minimum radii by the LDSIG (layout design special interest group) is usefull to you.

It could escape your attention easily, however the remark about reliable tracking is very important. It means derailments are possible when not applying the 1:3 ratio. Beside obvious reasons like trucks or couplers that can’t swing freely or far enough or like kinks in trackwork (some tinkering might overcome these issues) derailments are often caused by more hidden reasons. Forces on couplers might pull a car over the inside rail, this is called string-lining; depending on the length and weight of a car or of the whole train, the absence or not of grades and sufficient easements, pulling or shoving, running fast or slow. All are quite able to turn your layout into a derailment paradise. The worst case scenario is a mix of long and short cars, combined with light weight empties and fully loaded heavy weights; both on real railroads and models.

With the coaches you have, combined with the 22" radius, the ratio is in the 1:2 range. You might not encounter any problems as long as you just pull short consists with modest speeds over a flat layout. How old is your doughter BTW? My youngest only knows two speeds, non or full throttle. He wants to be able to shove his trains too; by doing so he found out pretty soon trainlength and carlength can not be ignored.

Smile

Paul

6

I’d consider going with a pretty simple layout for now, consider it kind of a learning experience. Pick up the “World’s Greatest Hobby” DVD (or it might be available online?) and see how to build benchwork, and look at the scenery techniques and try them out. Read model magazines, and pick up a couple of books on scenery, buildings, and track planning.

With 22"R curves you should be able to have a straightaway around 24" or so (two 9" straights and one 6" one) on each side. Maybe have a turnout on each side of the oval, each going to an industry. Or put an oval with 18"R curves inside the 22" one, and run two trains.

7

We gave our grandson a Bachmann HO set a few years ago that came with a 4-8-4 steam loco and a 22" radius oval. We built a 4’x6’ layout and added a couple of EZ track turnouts with interior stub tracks. The 4-8-4 does not negotiate the switches well. I drew a plan with a double loop (18" interior radius) and crossovers. While feasible, we stuck with the original plan and have enjoyed adding buildings, etc.

Don’t know if that helps you with your loco type.

His set was freight. We bought some shorter passenger cars that work well on the 22" curves.

8

It’s not an either or option between 18 and 22. That is you can mix 18 with 22 in a variety of ways, much like the real guys do with increasing or decreasing radius turns. Also you can use a 22, then 18, then 22 to help the cars/loco deal with the 18". Also, there are different degrees of curvature that you may need to mix taking this approach. You don’t have to use the standard degrees of curvature where you have to have four 22s and three 18s to make a 90 degree turn. There are halves and thirds available.

Richard

9

I’m working on a 4x6 layout right now that uses 22 inch radius curves and Atlas Mark IV #6 turnouts. It is a loop with a passing siding and works fairly well considering. I have been running a 4-6-2 Pacific with 2 Bachmann Spectrum heavyweight full length passenger cars during testing. I also run a lot of GP38’s and F units at completely different times on it. If space is a problem things may look a little bit odd but it still is enjoyable and fun.

RMax

10

HI! ANd a BIG FAT [#welcome] to you!!!

Is this the set you bought:

http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=200848391

The F7 loco and B unit will negotiate the 18R" curves, however the passenger cars may not do so well on the 18R" curves, so they included 22R" curves with the set.

The train sets usually have the bare minimum to get you up and running! So if Bachmann included 22r" curves , must be a reason.

Most plans for 18R" curves are for smaller locos {such as you F7 A & B} and smaller 40 or 50 scale feet RR cars. Your passenger cars are longer…not sure how much longer,but longer, and so may give you grief over 18R" curves.

Also, 4 x6 is not really enough space to get a double folded loop in. 4x8 would be better, or go with only a single loop around the board.

There are several 4x6’s here:

http://www.thortrains.net/nscale/homini1a.html

Here are some N scale 2x4 layouts that can kinda almost “grow up to HO scale” 4x8s:{just to give you some ideas}:

http://www.cke1st.com/m_train2.htm

Also, under “subscribers extra” on the black tool bar, if you subscribe, you cvna access their track plans, but don’t know how many 4 x 6s there are.

101 track plans and 101 MORE track plans may help you :

http://www.amazon.com/Hundred-Track-Railroaders-Railroad-Handbook/dp/0890245126/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1359078122&sr=8-1&keywords=101+track+plans

11

Yes, that’s the set. My daughter (7) really likes passenger trains so that was why we chose it.

12

Many Bachmann passenger cars have swinging coupler boxes. If the cars have boxes that turn as the truck turns then you’ll be fine running around 18" rad curves, though you can’t go through 18" s-curves and you’ll have to watch the overhang.

If the coupler boxes are mounted on the trucks, then you’ll probably still be OK running around 18" rad curves.

If the boxes don’t swing, there’s no way you can do 18", 22" will have to be your minimum.

In any case, TEST IT OUT using some sectional track before you lay the layout’s trackwork. I would reccommend flextrack for a layout this size as it gives more flexibility in track arrangement. Be sure to TEST OUT the curves with a coupled pair of cars before you finish the track or add ballast.

13

Doing tests is very wise, however most coupler- issues are found when cars of different length are coupled together.

BTW the OP’s original question was triggered by his wish to build a figure-8 type of plan. When indeed his max table length is 6 ft, the maximum radius he is able to use will be about 16". Are his coaches and engines and their couplers up to a radius that tight? Beside that the resulting grades might be to steep for smooth operation with his long coaches.

Paul