I run a small HO layout with several 18’’ R curves. I have 2 Model Power Metal F7As, running one loco (pulling 23 cars) on some of the curves the front axle on the front truck will derail, When I pull both F7As only the front axle on the front truck on the front loco will derail. Are you with me so far? I can pull 1 F7A with a cheep Bauchman ($30.00 no flywheels) in the front and I have no derainments at all. The Bauchman will run fine along the entire track with no F7As, but not slow or smoothe. It also seems to get dust on the wheels very easy, then becomes jerkey. I have to clean the wheels every 1/2 hour or so. I am running DC Any suggestions, maybe just inexpensive locos? I have looked at the track very careful and see nothing wrong. Help. Mike
Morning Mike: The 18" radius curves suggest that they are snap track. If the locomotives are derailing at a joint check the track joint for proper alignment. There should be no kinks and no or very little gaps. Since the problem seems to be with one locomotive check the wheel gauge. Use a NMRA standards gauge. If you don’t have one you can get one at most hobbie shops or from Walthers. Another thing to check is the track gauge. Even with flex track or snap track, track the gauge can get out of wack. Again the NMRA standards gauge is the thing to use.
I hope that this helps. If you want you may contact me by E-mail through the forum. I’ll be happy to give you a hand. By the way I’m in Parker County just west of Ft. Worth. Where in Oklahoma are you?
Well for starters I am in a small town (pop. around 300) in SW Okla called Manitou. 18 miles North of Red River on Hwy. 183. Next, My track is all Atlas code 100, Some flex and some rigid, all are soldered and ballasted. It is not only one but both Model Power F7As are doing the same thing no matter which one is in the front, always the front axle on the front loco unless the Bauchman is in the leed. I really do not think it is in the track because The Model Powers are the only locos that do this. I do not have a track guage, but the Model Power wheels measure .628’’ from flange to flange, the Bauchman measures .624’’ a .004 difference. The track where it wants to derail measures .668’’ from inside to inside. that is a difference of .040’’ on the Model Power and .044’’ on the Bauchman. I wouldn’t think that would make that much difference. Thanks for your help. Mike
are you using standard # 5 kadee or similar couplers?..if you are, try a longer shanked coupler between the two locomotives…the short coupler shank on the second engine might be pulling the front locomotive off the track because it can’t swing out enough with the shorter coupler shanks…another thing to check is if the rails are level from rail to rail…a sagging rail can also cause a derailment if the outside rail is lower than the inside rail… chuck
Mike, if the wheel gauge is right, and the lead axles have their wheels aligned front-to-back so that the left and right wheels track behind each other, the 90% likelihood is track alignment. It may be an improper join, but you would have detected that with a fingernail before very long. So, my guess is that the track is out of gauge (highly unlikely), but the money is on a vertical misalignment. Place a straightedge along the bad part(s) so that it lies flat along the rail tops. Place a light source on the far side, and get your eyes as close to the same height as you can. If you see gaps, that would be the place to shim the roadbed. If this is no a curve, it should be clear why the front truck leaves the rails.
The area in question is just after a turnout where the track makes a curve. I have put a small level on the track side to side and lengthways along the track and is all level (no dips) As far as couplers they are whatever came on the Model Power locos, prabley E Z Mate. I do have some problems with rolling stock commine un-coupled at randum spots not at the same place and not that often, I have been told to replace the couplers with Kaydee #5. maybe I also need to put them on the locos as well. I really like the way the Model Power F7As run and are quite powerful. One of them will pull 23 cars up a 2.5% grade at about 5 volts. Thanks for the help, Mike
I don’t have any ideas about derailments, but if you’re getting actual, “dust,” on your wheels it would seem that you have some issue with conditions in your train room. If they’re getting dirty, then the very first question is, are you running rolling stock with plactic wheels? If so, start replacing them with metal wheels. When you do, you’ll find that track and locomotive wheels will need cleaning much less often.
All of my rolling stock have metal wheels.I am thinking what the problem is with the dust is only with the Bauchman. When I first started modeling my train was in my shop (lots of dust) and not knowing any better, I was cleaning the loco wheels with 600 grit sandpaper, I think I have cleaned the nickel/silver off of the wheels leaving a brass wheel which will corrode very easy, Does this seem possible? Mike
Mike–
My railroad is in a garage, so I have an occasional dust problem, also. One thing–do NOT use any abrasive material to clean your locomotive wheels. It will peel the nickel plating off and you’re left with brass, which, while being a good conductor, corrodes VERY easily. My solution is to use a Q-tip dipped in rubbing alcohol or nail polish remover and invert the locomotive, connect power to it, let it run and gently swab the wheels with the Q-tip. It works really well, and there’s no abrasive contact on the wheels. MicroMark also makes a wheel/track cleaning solution that is just terrific–I’ve been using it a lot lately, and I’ve found that the wheels stay clean a lot longer. Abrasive cleaners like a Brite Boy are fine for track, but certain death on locomotive wheels.
Hope this helps.
Tom
Yes, brass will tarnish much faster than nickel silver and will need much more cleaning. Also how clean you keep your track will impact how fast your wheels get dirty.
How do the freight car wheels look? All gunked up or nice and clean? If they are dirty, they can put that dirt back onto the track, then have the brass wheels pick it up.
As far as the de-railing goes, I would look for some sort of interference between the two locomotives, such as couplers as suggested above. What happens when the MP is leading the Bachmann loco? Does it derail or is only when the two MP’s are running in tandem? What happens if you run an MP, then the Bachmann, then the other MP? Doing some experiments like that may help to narrow down the culprit.
And if it always at one spot, suspect track issues or a combination of track and locomotive. It almost sounds like the lead loco is being pushed/shoved from behind and jumping the rail. Any voltage spike at the turnout that may cause the lead loco to lose power or the trailing loco to get a voltage spike?
Good luck and let us know what happens.
As far as the wheels on my rolling stock All clean & shinny, I clean every once in a while Use a paper towel wet with alchol or goo gone over a piece of track then roll the car back & forth a few times, works well. I have been cleaning the loco wheels in the same manner but supply voltage to the track and let the wheels spin on the wet paper towel. If I pull both MP together the front axle will jump track, no matter which loco is in the front. If I pull the Bauchman behind the MP, The front axle on the MP will jump track. The Bauchman has never, as far as I know, jumped track. It is in mostly the same spot but on occaision will derail someplace elece. It doesn’t do it all the time but often enough to make want to do something about it. I wish there were other modelers around to run there loco and see if theirs do it. I do not have any “good” locos. Keep the advice comming, maybe something will come up. Mike
So on the poor contact with the Bachmann, it is probably due to the nickel silver wearing off and now down to brass.
For the de-railing, as it happens in more than one place, I would suspect a coupler issue. I do not have these loco’s but I had a similar problem when running two Athern SD40-2’s on 24" (so my friend said [;)] ) curves at a friends house. The swing of the couplers between the two locos was not enough for the radius and would result in a derail.
So check couplers.
One thing I have noticed and failed to mention, The two MP locos will go “clickety-click” at places in the track where the other lococ or rolling stock run smoothe & quiet, although there is never a derailment at that spot. I was just in the train room looking closely at the problem and it seems to actually come off track right where the turn out has the little plastic ( in this case) “Y”. Could this be the flanges are a bit to long, being it clickety-clicks in places? Thanks for all the input so far. Mike
Here a a couple of pics of the underside of the Bachmann, You can see how the NS has been polished off. I wish I was rich instead of so good-lookin (HAHA) I would buy a fleet of Atlas locos.
Thanks Mike
These are some possible things to check:
One thing that seems not to have been mentioned is to check the placement of the coupler boxes underneath the engines. If you have placed a coupler box on the engines other than where the manufacturer had them, you could have the coupler box very close to the trucks and when they take a curve they will go against the coupler box and the trucks can not align themselves with the curvature of the track and will naturally derail every time. If you look under the engine and rotate the truck and it can not freely rotate to the full extent of it’s rotation because it goes against the coupler box, then you have this problem. To solve this problem, you will have to take the old coupler box off and move the couplet box more towards the end of the engine, so that the truck can freely rotate without any interference from the coupler box.
Another thing is with some engines, what I call the cow catcher is too low and it will need to be trimmed or sanded some.
Another thing could be that you are using kadee couplers or some other couplers that have what I call trip pins, those metal wires, basically, that hang down from the coupler. These must be bent upwards towards the top of the engine in order to avoid these things hitting high tacks or other obstructions in the track that can cause derailments. There is a tool for bending these things upward, that I believe Kadee makes. I just use lineman’s pliers, but, you have to be very careful. You have to do this with the coupler assembly not on the car or engine. You can do it on the car, but, if you are not careful, you will damage the car or the coupler. I use lineman’s pliers that have little pits in the pincers of the pliers. I, then, g
Mike,
Gamer53, may have come close to the problem. I don’t have the MP locos you talk about, but I have a herd of Athearn BB F7s. I have had similar problems with some of them, especially early on. As William said, make sure the trucks are rotating freely. Any binding or interference from brake cylinders/ladders/coupler boxes etc. will cause a problem. Particularly on 18" radius curves. In my case, the break cylinders were coming into contact with the front ladders on both sides of the A-Units. Pushing in the break cylinders a little fixed the problem on my Athearns. If you have contact here and the cylinders are molded in, you will have to thin the ladders by filing or trim down the cylinders, or both.
As I said in the beginning of this ramble, sounds to me like you have a binding problem. Don’t overlook the drive train either. Sometimes the clips holding the truck to the frame are worn, bent, cracked or misaligned. Check to see. With tight radius curves you must have free motion of the trucks.
Good luck and let us know how you make out.
I had the same problem with my SD40-2’s. Solved it by slightly loosening the screw that holds the Kadee couplers box to the locomotive so now the whole coupler unit can swing in a wider arc and keep the loco’s on the track. A related problem is the Kadee trip pin that gets caught under the snow plow/cow catcher of the pulling locomotive and lifts the car of the track. Only solution is alonger shanked coupler on the locomotive.
I tried last night running first one MP loco nd then both locos together with no rolling stock. I tried a dozen or so times each way with NO problems at all, they will run fine together or one at a time unless I put some cars with them, Although running just the locos is not much fun. As far as the little pins that work with the magnitic uncouplers, I have removed them since I do not use uncouplers and do not plan to. A srewer stick works fine for uncoupling. Thanks for the advice. Mike
Mike,
Check the TURNOUT!
Since you said that it doesn’t matter which locomotive was in front, the lead one derails. There are two gauges that I believe are ‘must haves’. One is an NMRA gauge. Use it to check the wheels, the track, the turnouts, etcc. The other is a Kadee coupler gauge. It will show whether your couplers are are at the correct height. It will ALSO show whether the decoupler pins are at the correct height. I had the same problem, and it turned out that the decoupler pins were too low on a couple of locomotives. And the only place it derailed: after a turnout. Why only there? That was the only place where the decoupler pin was crossing something. Once adjusted, there were NO derailments. The other thing about Kadee couplers is that you need to get vertical play out of them as well. Kadee makes shims for that, as well as for raising or lowering couplers.