I started collecting and modeling various pieces of equipment about 25 years ago for a planned layout based on the pre-1900 V & T. Then with increased family responsibilities and such I just stopped, packed everything away, and got out of the hobby until recently.
Now that I’m retired, I decided to get back in and finally build a small layout. Of course in my absence from the hobby, among other things, DCC has come along. However, retrofitting DCC control into the diminutive Tender drive 4-4-0’s that I already own seems seems daunting—if not downright impossible for someone just re-entering in the hobby. Consequently, I’ve decided to build with the older technology of simple DC.
I’m wondering what kind of sound is still available that anyone could recommend. There are still some of the old MRC pre-DCC sound systems available on the auction sites—in particular the MRC 7000 which had a standard power controller along with a electronically synchronized single source sound system. It would be nice to have on-board sound, but since it layout will probably be no more than 4 x 12 or so I can live without it.
Thoughts about such alternatives for sound sans DCC control?
P.S. —and please–no long posts telling me why I should switch to DCC instead because it’s the latest and greatest—it’s just not practical for my project.
This could be a challenge. Even the non-train mounted Sound Traxx system relies on train mounted transponders (a part of a DCC decoder) to move the sound around the track following the train. I have not seen anything indicating that part of the product being stand alone allowing use in DC.
What level of fidelity and realism are you seeking?
To my knowledge there are no on-board DC sound systems around any more that deliver a sound worth the effort. Same goes for stationary systems like the good old PFM system 2-3 decades ago.
DCC decoders with sound are available for N scale nowadays - there should be a way to fit one of those into your 4-4-0. I must admit, that the sound quality has room for improvement, due to the small speakers… But even without sound, I think it is worthwhile to look into DCC, for better control and performance. After all DCC allows you to control the loco, and not the track power!
I willing to live with a couple of small speakers hidden around the layout. All I want is a steam chuff, whistle, and maybe a bell. MRC made such a system in the 7000 model I mentioned and they also had the same sound system available as an add on unit to an existing power pack. These are not on-board systems, but simply a single sound source to wire speakers— synchronized with the variable power supply. I just wondered if anyone had used one and how good or bad they sounded—and maybe if anything else was available.
The problem with the old Rivarossi 4-4-0’s was the noisy and poor running motors in the tenders and the fact that the plastic tender worked as an amplifier of the noise. To overcome this, I re-motored them years ago with Sagami can motors and then epoxied sound deadening foam to the insides of the tenders for every centimeter of space not taken up by the motor. Consequently they run quite well and are comparatively quiet, but then there is no room in the tender for anything else.
QSI used to make under-layout sound modules – perhaps you can find some of these on e-Bay or maybe QSI still sells them. Check their web site. With a good speaker, they sound more realistic than on-board sound, but obviously the sound doesn’t follow the train around the layout. They were good for a stationary location like a passenger station.
You can also mount a DCC sound decoder under the layout connected to a simple DCC system such as the Bachmann set, connect a larger speaker, and use that for sound effects.
I have a PFM sound system from the late 70’s. That required painting the back of a driver then cutting out sections so contact would create the chuff in sync with the pistons. Then you needed two wires with a capicitor to filter the signal to the speaker in the tender. Even in HO fitting a speaker in a small tender is difficult - particulary in PRR slope back tenders. About the only way you can do it is to place the speaker in a car directly behind the engine and keep it permanently coupled or use it behind whatever engine you are running at the moment. then you only need one speaker and car.
To try an make my question clearer----I meant to only indicate that while on-board sound would be nice, I simply don’t have room for it. Obviously, If I wanted to hook up a pennant car to every engine I could have sound, but if I was going to do that I would simply switch to DCC also. I’m really only looking for fixed point sound source, but somehow synchronized with my variable DC power supply. I probably will incorporate a couple of sets of speakers placed strategically around the layout.
To restate my question more succinctly. Does anyone have any experience with either the MRC 7000 synchronized sound controller or the MRC Tech 11, which is essentially the sound portion of the 7000 as a separate add-on unit or any other system similar to these two?.
I have come accross the systems you mention and have seen a couple listed on evilbay.
Although MRC has discontinued them–as near as I can tell, there was one for diesel only and one for diesel and steam. Along with bells, horns, and engine braking sounds---- these also include other ambient sounds such as car horns, sirens, industrial machinery, etc----most of which are not appropriate for the 19th century.
Since these systems are discontinued, the info at the MRC website is limited, but I can;t find anything to indicate that they have sychronized running sounds for engines, which is what I am looking for.
edit - delete all the on-board sound stuff I had here. I didn’t see the follow up post stating that off-board was specifically being asked for …well delete all, except that PFM type sound does not take nearly as much space in the locomotive as a DCC decoder does. There is only a choke coil to keep the PFM frequencies from the locomotive, and a capacitor to keep the DC power from the speaker. The hard part is the cam or other make/break circuit to synchronize the chuff.
For off-board sound, our local Hobby-Lobby had a bunch of the MRC SoundCommander? on the clearance table a while back. There might be still be some sitting around.
P.S. I have a AHM 4-4-0 Reno with PFM sound in it.
I echo the call for using a DCC sound decoder in a stationary mount hooked up to a nice, quality speaker of good size.
The nice thing about this is that you could have one sound decoder mounted under the layout programmed to a certain address, like “1234”. To get the sound to match your soundless loco, M.U. the soundless loco (say, address “0780”) to the sound decoder’s address of “1234” with your throttle. Now when you run the loco, the steam sounds match the performance of the soundless loco since they are connected digitally.
It’s hard to beat the quality of today’s sound decoders, especially with Soundtraxx Tsunami decoders. The limiting factor is the speaker size. Get a nice enough speaker, and you will blow anything MRC makes away with ease.
BTW, I’ve tried out the various MRC sound systems at times at LHS’s, and wasn’t impressed. For example, they only allow one to play two or three sound effects at time. So you can’t ring the bell and blow the horn at the same time.
Dallee Electronics, Inc. makes sound modules designed for onboard or stationary use. They have inputs that can be connected to buttons to trigger bell and whistle sounds and inputs to connect to track power to control chuff speed. I can also think of a couple of ways to use DCC decoders without converting your engines to DCC.
One option would be to use a DCC command station, but instead of having it’s outputs attached to your track, wire the outputs to a decoder and have the decoder outputs attached to the tracks(if you did this, you should have some form of overload protection on the decoder outputs, such as an automotive tail light bulb in line with one lead, to protect the decoder if a derailment causes a short on the layout). You could use a sound decoder to power the layout, but it would probably be best to keep the layout decoder and sound decoder seperate, that way you could have more than one sound decoder. With more than one decoder, you can have different engine sounds and consist whichever one you want with the layout decoder to change sounds.
The other DCC option would require the use of a Digitrax Zephyr. You could continue to power your layout with a DC power pack but also connect the power pack outputs to one of the Zephyr’s “jump ports.” Connect the Zephyr’s track outputs to a DCC sound decoder. The Zephyr’s jump ports can take a DC power pack’s output and control a DCC decoder with it.
Thanks, guys. The last couple of suggestions sound pretty good. Two of the engines I have do have totally empty tenders—A little brass 2-6-0 old time Porter mogul I picked up not too long ago, and at least one of the 2-4-0 JS Bowkers has it’s motor in the cab of the engine rather than in the tender. Rivarossi went to this system from the tender drive in later years, but unfortunately they never did this with their 4-4-0. That little brass mogul made me realize how over scale the AHM/Rivarossi’s are, but I can live with it—until I can find and finance a couple of the old PFM brass “Reno’s” that were imported from the 70’s up through the late 80’s.
Still, the Dallee Electronics system seem like it would give me some options to go have both fixed and maybe on board with those engines that have room.