I am new to model railroading, and am looking for some input from the community. Basically, I am trying to decide if I want to really dive into this hobby. I have a very basic setup right now (couple trains on a 4x8 sheet of plywood), but I have been thinking a lot about expanding it, and actually modelling something other than a basement sheet of plywood! My question/concern, is once the layout has been built, what do I do with it? I realize it will probably take years to be complete, but then does it just gather dust in a corner? What do all of you do with completed sets?
I apologise for the open ended-ness of this question. I really want to do this, but am having a hard time justifying the expense and how much room in the house this will take up. Thanks in advance for your help!
Once folks have a completed layout, they often start running it like a real railroad, called “operation”.
The idea is you make up trains in a yard, then deliver and pick up loads and empties from various industries, and take them elsewhere. This could be another location on the layout, or to a staging yard which assumes they are being delivered to another RR and forwarded to somewhere else in the nation. Trains also can orignate from staging assuming cars from far away are coming to places on your layout or are running through your location to another RR on the “far side”
Well that is sort of the big question isn’t it? There are many ways of answering it. And remember the saying, often repeated, that a layout really never is “finished.” But which alternative sounds best to you can depend on many factors, such as where you live, what other modelers you know, and what you yourself like best about the hobby.
First there are guys who “finish” a layout and almost immediately start in on another layout, sometimes re-using stuff from the prior one, sometimes starting fresh - even in a different scale. What they like most about the hobby is building the layout, and if they aren’t doing that, they aren’t having fun. Some of those guys join clubs so they can always be building.
Second there are guys who see to it that they never finish their layout, or take a hugely long time to finish it. It is a constant process of improving and tinkering.
Third let’s not forget the guys who have no layout at all but spend their time building kits, learning skills, and other non-layout activities. The phrase “arm chair modeler” is not really applicable to those guys because they can be very busy in their workshops on model railroading. Some of the finest and most exacting model builders in the hobby have no layout and never will. They just have no interest.
I reserve the phrase armchair modeler for the guys who get the magazines, go to meets and buy stuff, but don’t get to the building phase either of models or layouts. Don’t sneer. They are helping subsidize the hobby for the rest of us so bless their hearts.
I’ve saved the fourth one for probably the best result: you operate it, alone or with friends. Having fun operating enters in to the actual design of the layout, which is where John Armstrong’s book Track Planning for Realistic Operation comes in. Just running a train around an oval or other continuous loop can b
Once you really dive in you will realize a model railroad is never finished. As new goodies become available your layout will continue to grow. I’m hoping that I can complete my layout before I’m pushing up grass. After 30 years my current layout still has 4 sq. feet left to finish the scenery portion of the 64 sq. foot layout. Then there is the signaling system, more lighting, more trees and structures. A model railroad is never finished! You may be finished but your layout won’t be.
Mel
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
The answer, as is often the case, is…it depends. What is your aim, or set of aims, in the hobby, or in any endeavor for that matter? Your aim bespeaks your motivation, and most people respond to motivation with advancement along a defined route of some kind, a process, a method. Along this route or process are milestones or indicators of progress toward an outcome, even if that outcome remains undefined until very late.
Some enjoy crafting dioramas, and then inserting them into spaces left for that purpose on a larger layout. Some are content with running trains around an un-scenicked slab of plywood, wires snaking here and there and all. Some like crafting fine scale structures and items of rolling stock from scratch. Some sell what they make for other purposes. Some, like me, labour and struggle through the creation of a reasonably nice layout (by my terms) only to get to the point where they can enjoy their trains running in convincing scenery. Some take years to build amazing empires and then run operations sessions where they literally run a revenue-generating prototypical rail line, alone or with large groups who meet regularly because they share the same motivation.
Some like photographing their creations and entering contests. Some like to create distant time periods in history, or create a fine scale representation of a very limited space along a railroad’s right of way.
Each of us has the obligation to enjoy what we wish to when we enter a hobby like this one. It’s a journey, sometimes short, sometimes ending only in one’s death.
This is totally up to you and how “into” the hobby you are.
Setting up a 4x8, depending on what you do with it may have a limited ability to occupy you. One could do a lot of scenery and detailing to a 4x8 layout but operations may or may not keep you interested on a layout that size.
For many of us here, we were infected with the hobby often from a young age, and it seems we are always finding ways to occupy ourself and there really is no “end game”. In the older Model Railroader magazines, a recurring theme is “a model railroad is never finished”. In other words, layouts are often built and partly torn down or modified ad infinitum.
Obviously operations is what many model railroaders do when they have a more or less “complete” layout. The trick for many of us is building a layout with enough operational potential. Ideally having space enough to run some satisfyingly long trains and operate them to simulate real train activities is the goal.
Also, don’t discount the notion of building a layout, gaining some experience and then tearing it down and building another, possilby bigger layout. Many of us have built multiple layouts - thats normal. I’ve built the following so far:
I think of operations as four distinct methods or themes (others may see it differently).
Railfan. This is a layout where the goal is to watch as many different trains (even getting into modeling specific locomotives and specific rolling stock pieces) running through the scene(s) that you built. Some folks will go so far as to use this as a method for photography, sort of a scale representation of the real train pictures you would see on RRpictures archive and other internet sites. Or, its a way to show off and run models that you may have built or detailed. There really is no “operating plan” to a layout designed for railfanning purposes. Many experienced modelers who have been in the hobby build layouts like this simply because they love watchiing trais run through scenes.
Mainline Operations. Think of a basement sized layout where specific trains of a specific prototype (or freelanced) are run at mainline speeds from one point to the next using a specific timetable. Layouts like this are usually large, although they don’t have to be, and devote a good amount of space to hidden “staging” areas to hold trains before they are released on schedule to the visible part of the layout. Many modelers who are into modeling a specific railroad will go so far as to build a layout that represents a specific place and run their trains on a schedule just like the prototype.
Switching layout: These are typical smaller layouts that are built for the purpose of taking cars from an assembly area, like an interchange or yard, and swapping them out with cars spotted at industries throughout the layout. Many of these layouts do not have continuous running possibilities and are more of a back and forth operation (although clever design can give them a loop shape and allow for make them continuous "railfan"running). Modelers with limited space tend to build switching layouts since they can
There are so many different levels or slots to MR, you never can tell where you might end up.I know a fellow who started a layout,and started to research his prefered line. He hasn’t built a model in years,got so involed in the history of RRs
My nephew started out with my hand me downs, and now owns a MR manufactureing co.
Myself; I’m a builder, I get my fix from building. When my last layout was done, at least in my eyes, it sat untill I had to tear it down for a furnence replacement. I am now enjoying a rebuild.
Should it ‘‘the layout/hobby’’ ever gets old to you. So what? Hopefully you enjoyed building it, sell it, toss it, move on.
I agree with those who say “A layout is never really finished.”
I’m a scenery guy. I’ve been back in the hobby after a 40-year absence, and this time around I discovered that I got most of my enjoyment from building the scenery through which my trains run. I’ve kind of kept track of my time as I’ve built my layout, and discovered that it takes me about a month to complete a square foot of scenery. As sections of my layout were completed, I added more. I’ve been at this since 2004, and I’m not done yet.
And then, there are a lot of very serious model railroaders who are only interested in operations. They craft elaborate track plans and lay track, but seldom get to “decorate” their layouts with much more than shoe boxes with “Acme Manufacturing” written on them to support their operations. They are happy with that.
Right now, my layout is in storage anticipating a move. That will mean reconfiguring much of it. Some scenes will disappear forever, and others will be created. There will be a new track plan. I’m looking forward to it.
If you aren’t happy with a layout - don’t be afraid to tear down and rebuild. Some do it to make something better in the same place, others, because they have to move. I’ve moved quite a few times and hoping to stay put for a while now.
Here is my last layout getting torn down. Some commented it must be a bummer to tear down after all that work - it was, but I’m looking forward to something better and I did learn things from the last layout.
Lots of good advice here. I liked selector’s summary in particular.
Essentially, define your expectations of the hobby.
What parts do you enjoy?
What do you find difficult, but want to know more?
What would you rather just avoid?
What prototype (not becessarily a single road, it can be more complex, like an area, era, or industry, for instance) is most interesting to you.
How much time/space/budget do you have available?
Model railroading is rather unique in that there’s so much diversity in what is available or can be done that there’s no reason to do what you really don’t like and every reason to pursue what you most enjoy. Sometimes having extra funding helps accomplish what you need, but often enough its also about what you’re willing to invest in time and effort. Finding that balance is what makes for an enjoyable hobby.
And you don’t need to decide all this right now, try some different things. There is no single answer and only you can decide what works for you.
For my own [2c], I’m easing back into the hobby after about a decade absence, which was preceeded by half-hearted attempts at no-budget railroading. As Doughless and others pointed out above, most people fit into a certain bracket with regards to their end-goal. But something else to consider is whether you’re into the hobby on your own or if you’re working with friends and/or family.
For me, building and running the layout will include not just myself, but also my father-in-law and eventually (I hope), my son. So I asked dad what his ideas were, and I tried to make an educated guess about what my son may enjoy once he’s old enough. So, my build has a multi-pronged end-game. Operations me, railfanning for my son and father-in-law (and me, at times, I’m sure), and model building and detailing for all of us.
So that’s something to think about as well. If you’re building it for yourself, awesome. But if there are others who will enjoy it with you, ask them about what they see as the end result. Their input may change the way you think about the goals for your layout.
I think you have to want to operate your model railroad.
For some, the challenge is building, the benchwork, the track and the scenery is the goal. Having done so, they change themes and build another one or move to other building hobbies, ships or planes or dioramas. Isn’t Pele Sooborg (sp) the guy that keeps changing layouts?
If you already suspect you will grow tired of it and it will sit around taking up space and gathering dust, it’s probably not the hobby for you.
I suspect if I hired a custom builder and $XXX,000 dollars later I had a gorgeous completed layout, I would soon tire of it. I would have to side with a former president who said “You didn’t build that” Instead I want rock castings, that I do particularly well, there will be mistakes that maybe I will only see, but it’s going to be my creation.
No matter who builds it, you still need that imagination, that you had when you were 8 watching your train go around a simple oval.
You don’t have to wait until the layout is finished to play the operation game. If you did hardly anyone would ever get to play. A model railroad takes a lifetime to build. It’s best to start operating it as soon as you have part of the track laid. That way you can test the track and your design while you are still building it. Rome wasn’t built in a day and neither is a model railroad.
Most people start with a very low standard for scenery and gradually improve it over time. What starts out as plywood or foam later turns into white plaster mountains, then green covered fields and then forest. Structures go from cardboard mockups to plastic models which later get painted and have detail parts and lighting inside.
To play the operation game you either need a way to create a switch list or you need a car card system with waybills to create demand for the cars and cards to represent those cars. I use a simple car card system that my son could understand when he was only in first or second grade. The waybills list the online industry and the other location is simply east or west (of the modeled part of the layout). I use a 7 day system so there is some variation instead of just reliving the same day over and over again. This can represent seasonal shipments of produce with some days having a high demand for cars while other days the demand is low or none.
Some days I like to play the operation game while other days I want to work on improving the scenery. A model railroad is never finished but the end game is played while you are still building it. You sort of have to ‘stop and smell the roses’ along the way.
Sometimes certain end goals really can only be attained in certain “phases” of the hobby.
For example, my dream layout would be a massive late-1950’s early 60’s era recreation of my local area in the intermountain west. Union Pacific and Western Pacific in play with seperate mainlines, interchanges with the Rio Grande and Southern Pacific along the way; and branch lines dedicated to the region’s shortlines, the Salt Lake Garfield & Western, the Tooele Valley Railway, and the Nevada Northern. Awesome idea, lots of operating potential with unique freights and streamlined passenger trains, and a time machine to a time I have never seen but wish I could have.
But is that what I am building now? No. I have a small shelf switching layout that I have been building at my parent’s house. It is set in the intermountain west, but in the modern era; so I can mimic what I see in the real world (SD40N’s working small industrial parks). Is it my end goal? No. But it is a stepping stone to that end goal. I can play around and goof up this layout, I couldn’t afford to goof up a massive dream layout like the one I mentioned prior, but this switching layout is my place to try things out and learn. Its got a good enough design to handle some operations, so it will keep me satisfied in that regard too.
Now am I going to finish this layout and jump straight into that massive dream layout? Nope, not doing that either. I might start collecting rolling stock for that dream layout’s era to slowly build up a fleet, but I’d rather continue building small and medium layouts for the foresable future. I want to dabble in Free-Mo someday. I want to maybe buy some imported HOm gauge stuff so I can make a tribute to the railroads I saw while living in Argentina. I want to make a small N scale layout, something I can put into a coffee table and have in a living room. I might explore my other hobby; Lego collecting, a bit by mixing it with trains with a goofy Le
Wow, thank you everybody for the responses. Natually, I have a ton of follow up questions, but I think for me, the layout design and construction (especially the electrical work) is what interests me most. I am a terrible “artist”, but looking at some of the spectacular scenes online, makes me want to at least try (I have on multiple occasions looked at pictures that took me way too long to figure out if they were real or not).
1- Size - I am looking at an L shape about 10’x8’ for HO. I made a layout with online software that somewhat resembles this: http://www.scarm.info/layouts/track_plans.php?ltp=71. Is that large enough for interesting operations, or what Doughlass above called “Branch Line Operation”?
2- Assuming the above size, How many scenes could reasonably fit onto that? I was thinking 3 (small town, farm, and mountain/mine separating). Is that too much for the space?
3- Do people actually buy completed layouts? I would think most would want to build their own, but if I knew I had a reasonable chance to sell it if I got bored, it would go a long way to making me comfortable with jumping in.
Thanks again for the input, this being the internet I expected half the responses to be sarcastic or condescending. You all are great!!
In my 46 years in the hobby I have never completed a layout. The reasons vary due to moves, family obligations, etc. But I have had a layout under construction for most of those years.
I’m in the process of moving and hope to start my next layout (11th or 12th - maybe more) in a month or so. But I enjoy the planning, I enjoy the building process, I enjoy building models, and I enjoy running trains. At age 70, I don’t expect to finish this next layout (17 x 36), but I will have trains running. Hopefully, there will be some buildings and scenery.
If I do manage to finish this layout, I have enough room in my basement to build a couple more smaller layouts - maybe in a different scale and/or different theme.
My categorizations were meant to be very broad descriptions of the types of layouts that generally interest folks in our hobby. Its not meant to be an explanation of what you should do in a given amount of space.
What do think you like best about the hobby? I think that’s the theme of the responses.
Have you visited other layouts? Have you been fortunate enough to go to a train show and see displays?
Yeah, I understand those were generalizations, but as you put general sizes on each category, I was wondering if you thought those kind of operations could be accomplished with that size layout.
I like the building and designing most, which is where my concern comes from- what do I do when it’s done? I think with a complicated enough setup though, I could keep myself entertained with the operation portion as well.
I haven’t been to a show, but I think my desire to get into this is my great-grandfathers O scale layout, which was probably a 20 x 30 size.
Yeah, that plan I linked to was overly complicated, so I made one with a much smaller yard and sidings, but keeping the general structure and scheme.
Unrelated question- when will my posts stop having to be approved? I thought it was just the first one, but my second one took awhile to show up too!
