Do they come with a motor?
Are they set up at all for DCC/DC?
How much heavier are they than plastic ones?
If they are heavier do they have a larger motor?
Are they easier to work on then plastic ones?
I am asking these questions because I am looking to buy a brass locomotive. I am looking at a 0-8-0.
Kyle
Short answer:
yes
DC mostly but any DC can be configured to DCC with inginuity and DCC Sound with Cunning creativeness.
Considerably heavier
I don’t want to go there!
Brass can be challenging when adding sound systems, however once you’ve taken the time to figure out what you’re doing the results are better. Brass is more robust but has a lot more detail parts that can get in the way.
Fergie
There are many levels of Brass. Most look better than most plastic, but not all. There are a few DCC but they cost thousands. Old brass can be hard to work on, but no harder than old plastic once you get the hang of soldering. Most old brass do not run as well as most new plastic.
The most beautiful steam engines are still brass, but they cost a lot. There are some nice layouts that run all brass, but the owner put a lot of work in them. I was able to put sound DCC in and old United. It took a long time but if I can do it anyone can. It looks wonderful, but does not run as well as any of my new plastic.
Thanks. I dont plan on putting a sound system in it but I would add DCC to the locomotive. Im pretty sure I can figure out how to put a DCC system in to one. Ill do a lot of read before I try.
This is the general rule of thumb from everyone at my local club (both steam and diesel people, they all agree)who owns brass when I almost bought a brass GP30 and when I was considering getting an S-2 Northern :
“If it can be had in plastic, get it in plastic” And my rule that was made with their input: “If plastic is available, modify the plastic” (which I later put to the test, got 2 P2K GP30s to look just as good as their overland counterpart, and I could do 5 or 6 for the price of 1 overland)
IIRC, P2K makes an 0-8-0 with sound DCC.
Okay, here is the general answers for you:
They run terribly. They shed parts. They cannot be converted to DCC. You can NEVER get into them. They’re only for Old Fart Rich Collectors who store them in original boxes and never take them out except to gloat over them and tell everyone, “My locomotives are more EXPENSIVE than yours, Neener-Neener-Neener.”
And now that we’ve got THOSE very tired Old Wive’s Tales out of the way, the answers to your questions are:
They’re very easy to get into–3 or 4 screws lifts the body off of the mechanism. They can very easily be converted to DCC by simply isolating the motor from the frame, just like any other locomotive, they can be made to run as smoothly as current plastic models with a little TLC and lube, they have a lot of ‘heft’, and if they don’t, well, you can add weight and balance them with VERY little trouble. The brass steamers pick up from one side of the drive wheels and the opposite side of the tender wheels. You can very easily add phosphor bronze wipers to improve the pickup if you think you really need to (I do as a matter of course whether the locomotive needs it or not). If you get one with an old, voltage-robbing open frame motor, you can do one of two things, clean the old open-frame with alcohol and turn it into a like-new, smoother performing motor, or replace it with a newer can motor, and mount the can to the frame with silicone gel. Voila, ISOLATED motor for your DCC conversion. Brass tenders generally have a lot of room for decoders and speaker systems (you might want to drill some speaker holes in the bottom, from what I hear), and if you don’t mind the fact that brass steam locomotives–like the Real Thing–need a bit of tinkering now and then, you can have yourself a nice, smooth running locomotive.
BUT–and I say this Very Advisedly–do NOT expect a brass Big Boy to traverse an
[quote user=“twhite”]
Okay, here is the general answers for you:
They run terribly. They shed parts. They cannot be converted to DCC. You can NEVER get into them. They’re only for Old Fart Rich Collectors who store them in original boxes and never take them out except to gloat over them and tell everyone, “My locomotives are more EXPENSIVE than yours, Neener-Neener-Neener.”
And now that we’ve got THOSE very tired Old Wive’s Tales out of the way, the answers to your questions are:
They’re very easy to get into–3 or 4 screws lifts the body off of the mechanism. They can very easily be converted to DCC by simply isolating the motor from the frame, just like any other locomotive, they can be made to run as smoothly as current plastic models with a little TLC and lube, they have a lot of ‘heft’, and if they don’t, well, you can add weight and balance them with VERY little trouble. The brass steamers pick up from one side of the drive wheels and the opposite side of the tender wheels. You can very easily add phosphor bronze wipers to improve the pickup if you think you really need to (I do as a matter of course whether the locomotive needs it or not). If you get one with an old, voltage-robbing open frame motor, you can do one of two things, clean the old open-frame with alcohol and turn it into a like-new, smoother performing motor, or replace it with a newer can motor, and mount the can to the frame with silicone gel. Voila, ISOLATED motor for your DCC conversion. Brass tenders generally have a lot of room for decoders and speaker systems (you might want to drill some speaker holes in the bottom, from what I hear), and if you don’t mind the fact that brass steam locomotives–like the Real Thing–need a bit of tinkering now and then, you can have yourself a nice, smooth running locomotive.
BUT–and I say this Very Advisedly–do NOT expect a brass B
Tom has said it best though I resemble resent the Old Rich Fart sentiment. I’m not rich! I now have 6 Brass engines for several simple reasons:
I am not an elitist and I hope I never become one. If I do ignore me!
As it was said by Packer, some of the plastic models are now as good as the brass and may make excellent alternatives and are worth investigating.
Fergie
Actually, I’ve never found any books per se about rebuilding or re-gearing brass locos–but there have been some good articles in older issues of both MR and RMC on brass. I believe there was an article some months back in MR about re-motoring an older brass loco that was VERY detailed.
Basically, if it’s a non-articulated, brass locomotives come apart with three screws, two at the bottom back of the cab and one under the cylinders. Then the entire boiler lifts off of the chassis, and you have the operating parts–motor, drive shaft, gear box, etc. I usually disconnect the worm from the gearbox and run the chassis over a piece of glass. If it runs smoothly, then probably about the only thing it might need is a little lubing. I use laBell grease for the gearbox and light laBelle oil for the rods and eccentric gears. Then I hook it up to power leads and run it in–slowly–both in forward or reverse for about 15 minutes or so. This is usually when I also install the Tomar pickup slider-shoes on both the loco and tender (this is optional, understand, but it’s become a habit with me).
Brass is very forgiving and easy to work with–I’m strictly DC, so if anything goes wrong with my locos (which it can, after lots of running or not having been run in a long time), they’re very easy to get into and fix. But then, you’ve got to figure that the prototype needed occasional work, also. That’s a LOT of moving parts, LOL!
I think brass fills a need for some of us who are modeling steam railroads whose motive power is not represented in plastic. For instance, if you’re modeling Pennsylvania or Norfolk & Western, there are plenty of good-quality plastic locos out there to fill in your roster.
Tom:
If it’s not too much trouble, could you run through how to add the extra electrical pickups? I have a number of brass locomotives and the biggest problem I have is with them stalling because of insufficient power (this may be somewhat related to track cleanliness but the brass locos are much more susceptible than the plastic ones I have). I don’t know whether the procedure is different for different locomotives but the ones I have are:
W&R 2-8-8-2 and 2-8-2
OMI 4-6-6-4
PFM 4-6-2 (this is the worst one)
Sunset 4-8-4 (this one doesn’t have the same issues as the rest)
PSC 2-8-8-4
All have DCC and sound installed and that may be accentuating the electrical pickup problem.
Thanks.
Brad
Brad:
Though I can’t answer specific DCC problems with brass (I’m strictly DC) one of the problems with older brass is that the nickel silver treads on locomotive drivers and tender wheels tend to wear off slightly after running, making the wheels harder to clean. That’s one of the reasons I use the Tomar Track Shoes on my locos. The Tomar come in a package enough to do either one or two locos, depending on how many ‘sliders’ you want. It’s a sprung slider that is attached to the ‘live’ side of the locomotive and the ‘live’ side of the tender. The instructions are very clear and concise, you’ll need a #64 (I believe) drill and a #90 tap to do the job. Position the slider on the bottom of the locomotive–I usually mount them close to the middle of the number of drivers–where it contacts between the drivers, then drill and tap. On the tender truck, do the same thing. Tomar provides the screws for mounting. In DC, no extra wiring is required for brass loco conversion.
I have generally had good luck by only using one slider for the loco and another for the tender. I know that some other brass modelers use multiple sliders (BTW, they’re almost invisible when the loco is running). I believe that Dr. Wayne has used as many as three sliders on some locomotives, so there’s no such thing as ‘overkill’ with these babies. You should notice a DISTINCT improvement in the loco’s performance.
And as I said, the directions that come with the package cover EVERY aspect about mounting them. I can usually do the conversion in about fifteen minutes, and the result is a very smooth-running locomotive. And several of my older brass date from the 1960’s.
Tom [:)]
Brad–
Let me add a PS to mounting the Tomars on articulateds. I always mount them on the rear (fixed) set of drivers, usually between the 2nd and 3rd drivers (2-8-8-2, 2-8-8-4) and behind the second wheel on a 4-6-6-4. It’s worked very well for me.
Tom [:)]