I am planning on modeling the Southern Railway in the 1960s and I have a few things that I am rather ignorant about. First, for a layout set in the mountains, what type of ballast would be appropriate. I am modeling a prototype-freelance branch line with an even smaller line off of that. Would Woodland Scenics grey ballast be appropriate or should I use cinders? (And if cinders, any tips, tricks, suppliers?) Second, for a very small town, with only a gas station, a general store, an industry (see below) and a team track, what types of vehicles should I have? Specific models and manufactures would be nice. Third, for the Southern in the lower mountains, would the Walthers Feedmill be way out of place? The description in the catalog says they were found all over the place. If it is totally wrong for me, what other industries would be appropriate that fits in about the same space? I want something that needs a boxcar or two a day. For the town, how should I model the road? Concrete? Asphalt? Dirt? For a town of about 70 people in the mountains? And whatever type, how should I model it? There is definately going to be a dirt road on the layout. How should I model that? And finally, how should I model a dry creek bed? I have a bed about 4 inches wide with three Walthers trestles going over it, but they are really low and I didn’t want to model a running creek, so maybe a dried up one? Should I put a lot of weeds around the path of the creek or what? This is where I really need help! I know it is long, but please help!
[quote user=“soumodeler”]
I am planning on modeling the Southern Railway in the 1960s and I have a few things that I am rather ignorant about. First, for a layout set in the mountains, what type of ballast would be appropriate. I am modeling a prototype-freelance branch line with an even smaller line off of that. Would Woodland Scenics grey ballast be appropriate or should I use cinders? (And if cinders, any tips, tricks, suppliers?)
You will prolly use ballast thats locally available and you may expect the line to not be mainline heavy duty quality.
Have some off white ballast with dirtier colors mixed in, expect a little ground to invade in areas.
Just coming out of the steam era cinders might be used or mixed in.
Second, for a very small town, with only a gas station, a general store, an industry (see below) and a team track, what types of vehicles should I have? Specific models and manufactures would be nice.
Look for anything 60’s and before by 10 years prolly
Third, for the Southern in the lower mountains, would the Walthers Feedmill be way out of place? The description in the catalog says they were found all over the place. If it is totally wrong for me, what other industries would be appropriate that fits in about the same space? I want something that needs a boxcar or two a day.
There may be zillions of industries to use, could be an electrical supplier, distributer of something, a small manufacturer, or just a team track where locals load up their wares onto a boxcar for LCL deliveries.
For the town, how should I model the road? Concrete? Asphalt? Dirt? For a town of about 70 people in the mountains? And whatever type, how should I model it? There is definately going to be a dirt road on the layout. How should I model that?
prolly worn down asphalt to gravel road. I recall lots of stone roads in my early days driving and kicking up dust all the time.
soumobler,
Can’t help on the type ballast to use, but the cars and trucks would be from the 40’s and 50’s mostly, with a few newer years thrown in.
The feed mill, can’t help you there. Don’t know which one your talkin bouts.
I’m geussing with the other buisness your saying that could be there, it would be most likely along a state road, so concrete would be ok for the road or blacktop for a main county road
There would be lots of weeds n brush along side your dry creek.
Best I can do without more info
inch
The rural South in the 1960’s was a bit of a time warp, if you’re not from there. There was a lot more poverty, and the technology seen in the North hadn’t percolated that far yet. So, you would likely see a lot of older cars and trucks, and agricultural elements like feed stores would certainly fit right in. Modern attitudes hadn’t been fully adopted, either, so you might even want to have a place with racially-segregated restrooms out back. While we might abhor this kind of thing now, I think it’s a good thing to remind us of where we were, and how far we’ve come along the path of justice and tolerance as a society.
I model the late 1960’s, but my layout has a more northern setting. So, I have a very dark-skinned engineer in my Alco RS-3, and a more racially mixed population in general on my layout.
[quote user=“soumodeler”]
(A) I am planning on modeling the Southern Railway in the 1960s and I have a few things that I am rather ignorant about.
(1)First, for a layout set in the mountains, what type of ballast would be appropriate.
(1a) I am modeling a prototype-freelance branch line with
(1b) an even smaller line off of that.
(1c) Would Woodland Scenics grey ballast be appropriate or
(1d) should I use cinders? (And if cinders, any tips, tricks, suppliers?)
(2) Second, for a very small town, with only a gas station, a general store, an industry (see below) and a team track,
(2a) what types of vehicles should I have?
(2b) Specific models and manufactures would be nice.
(3) Third, for the Southern in the lower mountains, would the Walthers Feedmill be way out of place?
(3a) The description in the catalog says they were found all over the place.
(3b) If it is totally wrong for me, what other industries would be appropriate that fits in about the same space?
(3c) I want something that needs a boxcar or two a day.
(4) For the town, how should I model the road? Concrete? Asphalt? Dirt? For a town of about 70 people in the mountains?
(4a) And whatever type, how should I model it?
(4b) There is definately going to be a dirt road on the layout. How should I model
Thinking further…
Which way is your feed stuff going? I would guess into the mountains to feed livestock… so you would want covered hoppers and grain receiving bins…
Take a look at Walthers 628-305, 308-136, 200-418, 200-428, 200-449 and even 184-186 to start with.
As for industry… how about a sour-mash Bourbon distillery? Box cars of bottles and packaging, ingredients - some in covered hoppers/airslides. Fuel in gons or hoppers. High value product so could exist in small town. Also might get good water from beneath that gulch…
If the gulch bends you may need to reinforce the bents and/or their supports on the outside of the curve… dropping in old gons of spent ballast would be cheaper than elaborate concrete works or steel shuttering. You’d want the gons in place to deflect the flow from the at risk area but not want to push the water against the next bent/bent base.
dirt roads…
http://www.trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/913468/ShowPost.aspx
If it’s rural…
http://www.trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/875738/ShowPost.aspx
ballast…
http://www.trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/854026/ShowPost.aspx
http://www.trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/852834/ShowPost.aspx
smaller locos
http://www.trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/871876/ShowPost.aspx
mud in the gulch (instead of rock)
http://www.trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/873285/ShowPost.aspx
This also applies to pnel lid rural roads…
http://www.trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/893050/ShowPost.aspx
Happy hunting!
Someone tell us how to get back
The “time warp” rural South was about the same as the time warp rural North in my opinion. The coming of cable and satellite TV has homogenized the land. Not necessarily for the better. I was there. The barns and farm buildings in the South were always a bit more ramshackle because neither the animals or the equipment really needed protection from the elements like they did up North. Note- I do not include West Virginia or Kentucky in the General North OR South categories.And thanks to that 1860’s unpleasantness, the North is stuck claiming WVa, so remember that.
Grain mills were, and to a large extent still are, all over the place in rural America. I know, that’s where I live now, and it’s not down South either. What is gone are the small and back country rail lines that serviced them; replaced by trucks.
Outhouses were gone practically anywhere near civilization. The segregated bathrooms were real, but more pronounced in bigger communities than what you describe.
Anything other than a State or Federal highway was likely to be a tar and gravel road. If you saw “Cool Hand Luke”, you know why. Much less labor intensive to put down than concrete or asphalt, which was just getting popular mid-sixties in my area, and they were weather proof, and they hold up pretty good. Not too many pure ‘dirt’ public roads, except in places with a lot of sand in the soil and good drainage like in the coastal plain (flatlands). A lot of “native to the area” gravel on dirt roads.
Vehicles would range from brand new to 1930’s vintage. Southerners just didn’t believe in driving GTOs or Hemi Chargers around on dirt roads or across fields, the Duke boys not withstanding. Seriously, the family vehicle (be it sedan, station wagon, whatever) would be fairly new and in good shape, and the working vehicles would all be older and the paint didn’t hold up that good back in the pre _ Imron and clear coat days.&n
“First, for a layout set in the mountains, what type of ballast would be appropriate.” Back in the early 1970 I photographed the Southern Railway and found the ballast was white sea shells. The right of way was clean and well kept, a real first class railroad.
OK, so the basics about my layout: HO Scale, Code 83 Atlas Track (im poor) 4x8 for now with room to expand, pictures are at www.trainweb.org/mgr
I really don’t like 8x4s [:(!][:(!]… but , as 8x4s go that is pretty good! [8D]. You have managed to keep things to a minimum and have a sense of space.[:)]
While I was being stroppy after a night on track (including getting the police to remove kids who should have been in bed [V]) I should have (a) checked your profile and (b) asked your age (b/i) overall and (b/ii) in the hobby. Whatever on both that is a really nicely started layout looking nice nd tidy… wish I worked that well [%-)]
Er… hope you don’t mind the (possibly) rather severe answer… and I hope that the ideas help.
That gulch is going to be a big feature in the space available but could/will look really good. Where you’ve broken off the plastic foam you’re going to get a really good grip for a plaster coat. Something that might be useful… rather than trying to break it down more exactly in places try moulding it down with the back of a hot spoon… BUT make sure that you have really good ventilation, don’t inhale any fumes, don’t set off any smoke alarms (if you do just explain that you’re testing them - like you should at regular intervals)… don’t use the family silver, don’t burn yourself and find a safe way of heating the spoon (unlike the way I do it… I’m not even going to mention how).
You’ve got a great start there[:D][:D][:D]
Still I think time frame would be a factor. the early sixties saw many smaller industries served by rail, and the later, served by trucks, they did it, cheaper and faster.
Walther’s feed mill (either sunrise or columbia), should be just fine, but there would have to be a lot of farms near by to warrant a carload or two a day. Early sixties would see more boxcars with grain than covered hoppers. Another industry to model would be the lumber industry. A larger sawmill could send out carloads of lumber everyday. It would also have a town nearby for all the workers to live. A larger sawmill would also be a reason for the railroad to keep operating the branchline.
Another movie that shows a bigger town, but great time- theme shots of vehicles and general feel of the sixties is “In The Heat of the Night”.
BXCARMIKE
Those old movies are great for recalling the scene!
On moving grain… http://www.trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/870199/ShowPost.aspx
on cattle… http://www.trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/894229/ShowPost.aspx
Soumodeler
Looking again… is that foam in the gulch or plaster?
The upstream trestle will tend to protect the downstream one from flotsam so that should get more protection.
If you go for a large curve in the gulch you can push the deep channel over to one side through both trestles. It might just go to one side through the upstream bridge and the middle through the downstream. I don’t think that it will go the other way… without something causing a deflection. It could go to either side… geologically it could have kept cutting in toward that hill with the tunnel mouth until it hit hard rock that it can’t dig into… if this is a sedimentary (don’t know what mountains you’re in) the strata would be tipped almost on end so that the water is breaking against a sheet surface rather than edges… think of it like plywood - water will get into an edge but less into the face. The sheet wants to be vertical or the top away from the water.
Moving things about like this will give you different spaces within the gulch for things other than just the “plain” gulch to be happening. If you go for the angle you will get a wide and a narrow triangle… you could even have a work crew rigging gear to work across the deep channel.
Then again… if the rock has edges facing the water or isn’t hard the RR may have taken action to stop the end piers of the trestles being eroded on the side most effected.
A way down into the gulch for at least pickups and (in the 60s) maybe jeeps would be useful for maintenance crews.
If you can find the cash one of Athearn’s great Mack B wreckers could be pulling a
BXCARMIKE: I have planned for a large pulpwood yard on the branchline of the layout (past what the pictures show; the layout has a total of 16’x2’ past the 4x8) The stream banks are made up of Sculptamold, a paper mache like product from Amaco (our club uses it for almost everything) as well as the bed. I hate overcrowded layouts like our clubs. I am more into the watching the trains go around most of the time and switching a little when I feel like it. This is a modified version of the Turtle Creek layout from MR a few years ago. As for a way down into the creek, there really is no room when you see where I plan to locate the gas station and general store along the creek, but I will have a footpath down there for the locals, and maybe a wrecked car that accidentaly got pushed over the edge from the gas station (slash garage).
I have updated my website with pictures taken today of my layout. It includes some of the plans for the buildings.
You know, if you had some more room, 1960s Macon would be perfect for you to model. I know there are no mountains, but there are tons of operations opportunities. Just look at Brosnan Yard. I lived in Macon 37 years before I moved out here to Jones County. There’s still a lot of operating potential modeling Macon in the modern era. I’d love to see the Terminal Station modeled. You ought to think about it.
that was my first idea when I started to plan for my layout, but realized that 1) not enough room and 2) too large of a project in terms of accuracy. I know at least five people right now who would jump all over me at any attempt to model Macon.
Ready-to-run Vehicles:
Athearn: Mack B trucks with short trailers, Ford C stakebed or box vans (they would be 1957 or post-1961 versions - quad headlamps appeared from 1958 to 1960). A Mack R is a possibility as they came out in 1966.
Busch: 1950 Chevrolet 3100 pickup, 1949 Dodge Power Wagon pickup (actually could be any model year up to about 1960), 1957 Chevrolet Bel Air, 1950 Buick Riviera hardtop, 1952 Cadillac sedan, 1964 Ford Mustang.
Classic Metal Works: 1959 Ford Fairlane (due out soon), 1954 F-350 (due out soon), IH R190, White WC-22, 1957 Chrysler 300. They are out of stock at Walthers, but if you order online from Classic Metal Works, you can also get a nice 1958 Chevrolet Impala, a 1948 Ford convertible and a 1953 Ford Victoria hardtop. There’s also a 1961 Chevrolet cop car and a 1953 White COE fuel truck for your service station.
Eko: 1961 Mercury Comet, Ford Falcon, Chevrolet El Camino
Model Power: 1955 Chevrolet Bel Air, 1955 Ford F100 pickup.
Ricko: 1963 Lincoln Continental convertible
Roco: Willys Jeep, CCKW 2.5-ton truck (thousands were sold off for cheap following WWII).
Woodland Scenics: Various models in their Auto Scenes would work.
Any vehicles from the 1930s would either be larger trucks, up on blocks or rusting in a field. Parts would no longer have been available and the vehicles from the 1930s were pretty well worn out by the lack of civilian vehicle production during World War II. By 1960, they were mostly gone, even in rural areas.
You could toss in a VW Beetle; they had penetrated even the backwoods by then. Other foreign cars, except possibly a Volvo, would be unlikely.
One thing you could make is a pulpwood truck to bring logs to the railhead. Unlike the big logging rigs, pulpwood trucks were more often medium-duty trucks without any commercial bodies. There would be a piece of rail or steel beam welded over the rear axle to ensure clearance for the wheels and a
Grew up in the fringe suburbs in Northern Virginia. Back before the beltway was built, and Tysons Corner was the crossing of 2 two lane roads with a meat packing plant as the only business at the intersection.
The Washington & Old Dominion was still running at least one train daily on week days, so this is based on my memories of that line. Single GP for power (in 1962?), with 8-20 cars typical. Ballast was gray gravel. Wood trestles over the creeks - I know because my Boy Scout troop often hiked the rail line and camped on private farms who gave permission. State roads tended to be concrete with the “bump” tar strips at the expansion joints. It was special and comfortable to find a real asphalt road. Everything else was tar and gravel. Southern States was the everything agricultural dealer - everything from selling tractors and fuel to buying corn and other crops.
Pickups were not used except as work vehicles, as others have said. International pickups and light trucks were fairly common. Pickups would be older and more faded.The paint really did fade in about 3-4 years back then. Foreign cars were not seen outside the cities in the early '60s except for the occasional Volkswagen and a lost (and broken down) British sports car. Ramblers were still on the roads.
Blacks worked alongside whites in the manual jobs, but lived in a separate part of town. Schools, churches, and housing were segregated (more by tradition than anything else at that point) but nothing much else was. It was just too much trouble to segregate everything in the small towns.
my memories, your choices
Fred W
Now I have some questions about the pulpwood yard. I have four of the old Athearn pulpwood cars in SP, IC, and LN, but with no loads. Does anyone know of good loads that fit these cars and are nicely painted and detailed? How about modeling the yard itself? Any suggestions or items to include?
I just bought the new Walther’s State Line Farm supply instead of a feed mill. I am going to change it into a tractor/feed and seed/parts store with a loading dock for trucks as well.