I am wondering when you use foam on the layout and mount the roadbed onto the foam, what about the sound deadening? Is it pretty good or should I use something to absorb the noise? I am planning a new N scale and would like to use foam over a piece of 1/2’’ plywood. All I can get around here is 1/2’’ and 1’’ foam, I was thinking for the basic layout of using 2 pieces of 1’’ foam glued together and using cork roadbed. On another thread I was told I could glue the cork directly to the foam, but I failed to ask about the sound effects.
On another note, Are the inclines the same in N scale as they ar for HO, 1’’ rise in 100’’ is equal to a 1% grade? What are the guidelines for building an N scale grade?
Please be patiant with me for I am building my first N scale (I have a HO scale) and my first at using foam. Thanks. Mike
I’m using very thin foam over very thin plywood, cookie cutter construction with wide open spaces between subgrade sections. Everything above the bottom of the subgrade is fastened with latex caulk. There is absolutely NO layout noise that doesn’t come directly from the locomotive except for the click-click of metal wheels on rail joint gaps (four wheel cars. US prototype would go cli-click - cli-click.) Things are so quiet with my better-geared locos that those rail joint clicks are clearly audible at three meters’ range.
The plywood ranges from 1/4" to 3/8" and the foam is fan-fold underlayment, about 10mm thick. I also use a layer of cardstock between the foam and the tie bottoms - track templates, cut full size and left in place under the flex and hand-laid turnouts. Some, but only a minor percentage, of the plywood subgrade had to be beaten into flatness by bolting on chunks of steel angle iron.
I suspect, but cannot prove, that the silence is due to the sandwich of different materials and the fact that no metal fasteners penetrate from tie strip to plywood. The plywood is screwed (up from below) to risers fabricated from pieces of steel stud, using very short screws that barely penetrate into the foam from below. Track nails that actually encounter anything solid are removed - they aren’t driven in hard to begin with.
None of my track has been ballasted. The hardening effect of ballast MIGHT change things, but it isn’t intended to go below the top surface of the foam.
I’m using 1/4" luan on 12" centers with 1/4" foam on top. In the staging area there is no roadbed. The tracks are laid with latex caulk directly onto the foam. On what will be the sceniced areas that roadbed (brown rope caulk) is secured to the foam with the latex caulk and the track is secured to that with the same caulk.
This video has sound. After the train rounds the first corner you can hear me sliding my feet across the carpet (I wanted to keep the camera steady), and you can hear the motor in the loco (barely), but thats about all. It’s very quiet.
I like it. Very quiet. The guy at the lhs has this foam roadbed down on part of his layout and it is really loud. Wonder what he did differently? Love the tackplan, can you walk into it without ducking under? Do you have a trackplan drawing I could peak at?
Generally the foam is really good for the strength-to-weight ratio, cut-ability, and it’s pretty easy to work with. Biggest downsides are that it doesn’t hold screws well (if at all), and there’s no way you can lean on it without snapping the foam (as opposed to plywood, which one could probably stand on with no detrimental effects, provided the benchwork can suport the person’s weight).
Lets say we were cutting drainage ditches along the mainline… with wood subgrade or cookie cutter, you’d probably have to cut out the ditch, shape with plaster cloth and cardboard strips, then detail/scenic. With foam, you cut the ditch, “perfect” the slope, and scenic.
Mike, The smaller layout that I started recently is the first one where I laid cork roadbed directly on foam which rested on a base, and I haven’t noticed any problems with noise. Having foam as a working surface makes it a lot easier to put in lakes, streams, depressions, etc.
If you “dig” down through the entire 2 inches of foam to the base to put in a lake or such, just be aware that that equals about 27 feet or so in n-scale and may be a bit more deeper/steeper than normal for the area your modeling.
Grade calculations are the same for HO and n-scale.
The blue or pink two inch construction foam will deaden sound as well or better than cork. You say you can’t find 2 inch foam? That makes me think you might be looking at styrofoam or beadboard, which is not really suitable for layouts, rather than the construction foam which comes two inches thick.
The foam needs a wood frame around it to protect the edges from getting crushed when someone leans on the layout. For a frame of 1 by 4, I’d put a plywood bottom in the frame just to stiffen it up and keep the corners square. I have a radial arm saw, and I’d use it to put a dado in the sides to hold the plywood bottom in place. That would give me a rugged frame even if the bottom were only 1/4" plywood.
I’d set the dado about 1 1/2 inches down from the top of the frame, so when I dropped the two inch foam into the frame it would stick up abou
When I started looking at materials for use on the layout, I wanted quiet. Cork dries out and becomes hard, which amplifies sound. Homosote is hard to start with, so that was out. Foam is not bad, but there’d be quite a bit of waste as I trimmed to fit my needs. Topper tape looked promising, but I couldn’t seem to find larger quantities at decent prices. I needed a solution though as I was getting to that point in the construction. Then I found something!
I think that one of the main reaons it’s quiet is because I used rope caulking as a roadbed. I’d never tried it before and I was walking through the Home Depot one day in the spring and the stuff was on sale for like $5 a roll, so I thought I’d give it a shot. It’s twice as wide as N scale track, so a 15’ roll gives me 30’ of roadbed for my $5 investment (cost efficient!). And the stuff stays flexible forever, so it’ll always be quiet. Also, latex caulk (my only ahesive on the layout because it dries flexible (read: quiet) instead of hard like the glues a lot of folks use) sticks to it well, so it’s a winner all around. I’ve been most happy with it. I can even use a roller on it to flatten it for trasitions of rail height for sidings and such.&n
When I started looking at materials for use on the layout, I wanted quiet. Cork dries out and becomes hard, which amplifies sound. Homosote is hard to start with, so that was out. Foam is not bad, but there’d be quite a bit of waste as I trimmed to fit my needs. Topper tape looked promising, but I couldn’t seem to find larger quantities at decent prices. I needed a solution though as I was getting to that point in the construction. Then I found something!
I think that one of the main reaons it’s quiet is because I used rope caulking as a roadbed. I’d never tried it before and I was walking through the Home Depot one day in the spring and the stuff was on sale for like $5 a roll, so I thought I’d give it a shot. It’s twice as wide as N scale track, so a 15’ roll gives me 30’ of roadbed for my $5 investment (cost efficient!). And the stuff stays flexible forever, so it’ll always be quiet. Also, latex caulk (my only ahesive on the layout because it dries flexible (read: quiet) instead of hard like the glues a lot of folks use) sticks to it well, so it’s a winner all around. I’ve been most happy with it. I can even use a roller on it to flatten it for trasitions of rail height
Actually, for N scale I split it half lengthwise ( see? ), so for HO you’d just take it out of the package and use it. You’d only get 15’ per box, but at that price it’s still not bad.
Thanks, but it was a team effort! I came up with the basis, but if it wasn’t for all of the help of the forumites I’d not have nearly as good of a plan.
I love track planning. (I know, but I’m just a glutton for punishment!) Why not Email me and we can maybe come up with something. Then we can let the forumites have at it!
Right now I’m without a camera, but I’ll fix that soon. Once I get that taken care of you’ll be seeing new stuff from the Autumns Ridge Railway & Navigation Company.
While we’re on the subject of quiet, has anyone found a way to secure ballast that doesn’t involve making it hard as a rock with glue so that it amplifies sound?
Nothing perfect but dilute matte medium leaves the ballast more flexible than white glue. Over foam roadbed you can easily push it with your finger and make it flex without cracking it.