The first is a MDC Climax A. I got it to run and it seems to be running smoothly, very low geared. I’ve always liked the look of these and I thought it might come in handy somewhere on my layout–although Climaxes were not big in California logging. The problem is the current draw from the open frame motor and the noise.
I imagine I can re-motor it with a can, but with all the gearing, can the noise level be dropped? My Rivarossi Heisler and the Spectrum Shays are pretty quiet.
The second is a Mantua 2-8-2 Camelback. It runs very nicely in reverse, but does not move in forward. It is very smooth and quiet–in reverse. Forward Nothing.
Spacemouse, an MDC Class A??? not the kind with slanting cylinders on the side(Class B) , but a vertical motor middle of the chassis Class A? I didnt know they made one?
Either way Climaxs were fairly common on the west coast, In fact Climax’s primary customers for both A & B classes were primary logging outfits out here on the West Coast, BC, Wash, Ore, and NoCal. Smaller guys got the A’s, larger richer outfits got the B’s, but the A’s were made right up to end of production.
I have the bible of Climax Loco books and it has plenty of pics of Class A’s out here on the left side, in fact the ONLY remaining Class A chassis is in Washington State on display, guess where I’m buying a plane ticket to if I ever hit all 6 lucky numbers!
I guess maybe I’m being a little myopic when I do my searches. I’m moving forward pretty quickly on modeling the Union Lumber Company/Califonia Western logging operation in 1917 with an interchange with the NorthWestern Pacific at Willits. The only geared loco that the California western Railraod had was a 3 truck Shay (always wanted one anyway [:D]). And although I have not yet located a roster for the NWPRR, they have no reason to have geared locos, although they might have aquired one or two when the absorbed some of the smaller logging lines.
Be that as it may, from my web sources, I have only tracked one Climax to Norhern California with the vast majority going to Washington–where because of its protected ports was more profitable and therefore higher tech. At least they seemed to get the better equipment first.
Anyway, if you have a better source of information about the distribution of Climaxes, I’d like to know about it.
I am making up a mining operation that will use my Heisler, maybe it will have a small climax as well. This is the climax I’m talking about.
I’m not a real expert on tuning engines, but IIRC, some of this type of issue can be caused by slack, esp. in a worm gear.
Look to see if there is a worm gear that has a little bit of space to move back-and-forth. It may be that the clearances are such that, then trying to go forward, the worm slides one way, but the gears are then too tight and they bind. When going in reverse, the worm slides the other way, loosens up the gears, and everything turns nicely.
If that’s the case, Northwest Short Line has spacers (traditionally used in tuning Athearn locos, with which I have a little more experience) that may be used in order to keep the worm towards the “loose” end.
Good luck, and let us know what you find. I’ll be starting in on some MDC kits, working up to the Shay kits, and I’m sure any news of what works vs. what doesn’t will help.
I think MDC used the same mechanism on the Box Cab diesel as they did the Climax. I have one,its very noisy and slow,haven’t been able to quite it either. Joe G.
Joe is right, those are really just another body on the Box Cab Diesel chassis. They are just plain noisy. I THINK NWSL has some gears that can help, but it’s never going to be a nice silent runner like a newer model. Somewher ein one of my old (early 70’s I think) issues of MR there is an article on converting the 30-ton boxcab into one of the 70-ton models, with additional hints on improving the mechanism. Try the magazine index.
I still say its OK to use on your logging line, be right at home. Just because the real RR didnt have one doesnt mean you cant use it, or at least use it till you can pick up a Shay or a Class B. So go for it.
BTW that particular MDC Climax is not a Climax at all in the prototypical sense, it never existed. MDC created it as a product line, Randy is right in that it shares the same chassis as a Boxcab diesel.
Shame on me for not recognizing what you were talking about when you said “MDC Climax” I just built a large scale Class A Climax and considered using the MDC as a model for it. but after doing all the research I deciced on a traditional Class A, after several months of work i get a fixed picture in my mind of something so I had this in my mind when someone says Climax:
I get three projects down the line and I completely Blank on the previous projects, I almost built a large scale version of this engine but didnt like it when I did the mock up, so I went traditional. Heres a link to the work so far:
As fa as your Mantua camel back goes several qustions arise. First we need to determine if the motor is getting power in the forward direction. this can be determined with an ampmeter. If the motor is drawing amps then more then likely there is a binding problem. Does the loco try to move and then go dead? Binding could be in an axle or axles that are worn, same for the idler gears, and also the thrust bearings in the motor may be worn. I asume this loco has a worm drive and as the motor shaft turns in one direction the worm tries to pu***he shaft into it. In the other direction it tries to pull it out. This could be causing the brushes to hang up on the armature causing the motor not to turn in one direction. I would say that the wheel quartering and side rods are not the cause since it runs fine in reverse. Since our locos are run forward most of the time the axles tend to wear the axle bearings on the front surface of the bearings and what this does is allow enough slop to cause the side rods to bind, but in this case usually the loco will make a feeble attempt to move. Anyhow good luck with it, Ken
I’ll jiggle it when I get home. IT seemed tight to the point of being frozen. I couldn’t turn the drivers. I didn’t pull the shell as I’m thinking of giving it back. I traded two really nice Faller models for them and I knew at the time I was getting reamed. (Combined Walther’s list at around $110) I have no use for a PRR 2-8-2 Camelback. I was just being nice. (I had no use for the Faller models either.)
For the Mantua, first check the armature end-play of the motor. I have had to repair several that ran great in reverse but would not run forward. It seems the armatures somehow get a lot of axial endplay and the motor brushes no longer track down the center of the contact area. Doesn’t want to run worth a toot like this. I have found that by taking the appropriate thickness of Kadee shims (0.010" - grey, 0.015" - red) and cutting a small “V” slot in the side, I can shim the armature to get the brushes to track down the same location of the contact area. The motor will run the same speed forward and backward. Lube the motor’s journals with a small drop of Dexron II transmission fluid, and you are set to go. (Don’t use oil, it will gum up over time.) Let me know if this helps.
Ironically the camelback 2-8-2 is a LV engine of pre1910 vintage. I would pull the boiler and then the motor and see if it rools without the motor. Then try turning the armiture of the motor off the engine. Apply power to the motor off the engine and see if it runs both ways
You can get a lot of the noise out of the Climax by lightly lubing the gears and bushings in the mechanism. Use transmission fluid, not oil. Try to keep any lubricant from the small pieces of (Tygon) tubing used to connect the shafts together. This mechanism is noisier than most, but can be made quieter. Also, it is intended to be run SLOWLY. DCC will help since you will have full track voltage to the wheels and can regulate the voltage to the motor.
Just curious, which manufacturer? Its just that the MDC Climax in the picture you showed was ment to represent a varient of the Class A , the B’s are very different. I wish MDC had done a Class B before they got swallowed by the Borg, doubt we’ll ever see even the MDC Shay again. just want to make sure werre talking apples and apples here.[;)]
Class B, neat!
edit Nevermind the first part-took me a minute to realize you were refering to the prototype RR not to the model. D’OH!
I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. When Iooked a a roster of Climaxes sold, I found only one, a B, sold to a Califronia Lumber Company and they were not the original owners.
