Hi!
I’ve got 3 BLI steam locos (DCC w/sound) and have reason to believe that the tenders are just too light. I don’t believe the NMRA has special weight rules for tenders, but the “rules” for rolling stock may be questionable as applied to tenders.
What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks,
Mobilman44
I have had no problem with the tenders derailing on any of my BLI steamers. I have had my M1a, J1 on the front of 60 car trains with my two I1sa pushing on the back. The only time I had a problem was when the foot plate on my J1 was under the front plate on the tender. That was my fault when I placed it on the track. The tender on my 0-6-0 is light as a feather and pulls 12 to 15 cars on tight radius curves.
I am like a very few modelers on this forum that believes the more weight the less cars. I have seen the videos by Steve Hatch and Andy Reichert and agree with them that weighted cars hides bad track. If I can run 60+ non NMRA weighted car trains on a 40 year old club layout with a 8 turn helix and 28 foot long 3 percent grade you should be able to lay rail at home to do the same.
Pete
The only tender of my five PCM/BLI steamers, all different models, that derailed initially was the one for my UP 2-10-2 hybrid. It turns out it didn’t like the dips in my rails on curves. Once I rectified that issue the derailments went away. As for my other engines, a Hudson, a Pennsy K4s, a Niagara, a Duplex, and a Y6b, they have never given me problems.
Is it possible that your tethers are twisted 360 degrees and are acting like levers to lift the front ends? Have you lubed the towing pins? Are you using a hole in the drawbar that is closer than your curve radii will permit?
-Crandell
Thanks,
You all brought up good points. My trackwork is (IMHO) very good, and I refuse to proceed in the layout building process until derailments are negligable. That being said, the tenders seem to be too light - and of course part of that is I am picking up a loco/tender at the same time.
You know, thinking back to my postwar Lionel years, those tenders were extremely light as well!
Thanks again,
Mobilman44
I to have several BLI steamers. Hudsons, Niagra, et al…My newest one is a Mowhawk, which is a hybrid. The only problem other than not alot of pulling power ( I had intended it to pull long passanger and M&E trains on my fairly large home layout with 33" minimum radius curves) is that the tender likes to come off the track on the lead truck. The derailments are not in any one place, usually don’t happen in the same place, and my only clue is that it happens on a curve. I did find the centering pin (I guess it is) was off center. It sticks through a little hole in truck that has a gromett on it. Once I straightend that out I do have fewer derailments, but they still happen. So it is setting at the round house awaiting further investigation into the problem. My reply is because I see some one else had problems with a hybrid BLI locomotive. Still all told it sure beats the amount of effort I had to put in previously to get most brass engines running. Heck it even has pretty good paint!!! What a life we model railroaders now enjoy compared to 20 or 30 years ago. Oh, perhaps I will add some weight to the tender when adding it to the engine to increase the pulling power, assuming the motor will handel it, and see if that cures the derailment problem.
Paul
Dayton and Mad River RR
Hi!
My tender derailments were ALL on the lead truck as well. I’ll open it up and see if there is anything amiss.
The main level of the layout under construction will be pretty much flat, and I hope that will allow the BLIs to pull some decent strings. I especially like the 4-8-4, and would very much like it to be able to pull 10-12 free rolling passenger cars. The thing is, I won’t know for sure until the main level is built, as all the incline/staging tracks now in place is on a 2 percent or less slope!
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
At the risk of merely repeating fellas, I dealt with the BLI hybrid tender’s lead truck problem over about 2 weeks just after I received my UP-TTT6. I was most expasperating, it being such a nice balanced engine. I eventually narrowed the problem areas to curves where there was superelevation. At eye level, it became apparent that the outer rail was not maintaining grade, but actually dipped slightly over 6-8", and that was enough, for this one engine’s tender, to want to derail. I eventually ripped up 3 full feet of track and redid the roadbed so that the superelevation was more consistent. I have not had a single derailment since. If your outer wheel’s flange on the lead axle can slip sideways over top and outboard of the gauge, it will do so. Raise the outer rail head just enough to keep the axle oriented along the track’s major axis at any one point and you can think about other issues.
-Crandell
I like to ballast the tenders of all my locomotives to at least 6 or 7 ounces, then add 2 or 3 ounces of loose “coal” to the open bunkers. The added weight has very little effect on pulling power, but it definitely improves electrical pick-up. It also improves tracking when doubleheading, as a slight speed surge from the second loco can cause a light tender on the lead engine to derail - the same can happen on a downgrade as the slack runs in on a long and/or heavy train.
I’ve found that the main cause of tender derailments, though, (when trackwork is good) is the electrical connections between the loco and tender. Often, the wires are overly stiff, or there are just too many of them. The “pigtail” on the original Athearn Genesis steamers was a big culprit (I run DC, so removed them completely - I did add tender pick-up, though, with a pair of very flexible wires for power routing), and the wire bundles on Bachmann locos need to be carefully arranged around the drawbar to get good tracking performance.
Wayne
i don’t think a little extra weight in a tender would hurt anything at all. i often add 3 or 4 oz to all my plastic ones. brass tenders seem to be heavy enough as is.
the NYC had a serious wreck years ago at Cold Springs NY because the engineer entered a curve a little hot and instead of steadying the train with a light brake application, he closed the throttle. when the slack ran in, the whole passenger train shot craps.
while you question was in regard to bli, i will tell you about my experience with a bachman spectrum 4-8-2.
the tender does seem a bit light but so far no problems. the tender trucks were extremely tight and hard to swivel at first. i noticed this when i took it out of the box. after taking the shell off, i held the nuts with a pair of plyers and loosened the screw about 1 turn. now they swivel freely and rock just enough to maintain contact on rough track. this adjustment had no adverse effect on the electrical pickup whatsoever. now to do something about that stupid blue headlight.
if your trucks swivel freely and are loose enough on the kingpins to rock a bit, then weight becomes less of an issue. i noticed this with cars years ago. i do find that heavier locomotives tend to pick up current better and the wheels stay cleaner so the same should hold true for tenders
grizlump.